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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hakkenshi" data-source="post: 310398" data-attributes="member: 5457">I happen to think that CR matters a great deal in this discussion. You can't possibly hope any 7th-level to do appreciable damage to a party with a Centaur (reincarnated or not). I'd say he's still at least two levels higher than he should be. No, ECL does not change for a reincarnated character. But you have to bear in mind that reincarnating as a Centaur is MUCH more powerful than reincarnating as a Human! At least two levels' worth, maybe more since, as you said, there's no counterbalancing penalty.And Soldarin's Calculator, while homebrew, is vastly superior to any published source of ECL. If you read it, you'll see.Pages 100-101 of the DMG, under the heading CHALLENGE RATINGS AND ENCOUNTER LEVELS. The emphasis is mine. I think that's where you may have taken the APL idea, but I could be wrong. Either way, there's your actual reference.Better yet, from page 12 of the Monster Manual, under Challenge Rating:Now you said your characters aren't fresh, but the fact that they're closer to being a level 6 party balances that.And anyway, logically it was the only possible way of seeing it. How exactly did you expect a CR 7 to be able to take on more characters just because the book says it can take on level 7 characters?Back to the monk. I think one of the problems I'm seeing is that you want "builds" of monk. But the scout monk isn't a build--he's a standard, out-of-the-PHB monk. He does all the other I mentioned too. That's a SINGLE character. You just put skill points in Hide and Move Silently as well as Tumble. Have him carry a crossbow (which he's proficient in), or better yet, as someone mentioned, poisoned shuriken (make it a paralysis- or sleep-inducing poison). You could also equip him with a bunch of those nifty alchemical items the PHB has. With a bagfull of Thunderstones, Tanglefoot bags, Alchemist's fire and caltrops, he becomes a great low-level ninja. And don't tell me that incapacitating the enemy is useless!I think even in your encounter, that level 7 monk could use such items with efficiency. Have him slick a section of the floor with oil, then set it ablaze as a surprise action. Granted, this works for any class, but a ninja-like monk would DEFINITELY use that sort of tactic. Chuck a Thunderstone or two, then a Tanglefoot bag, and maybe he doesn't need to worry quite so much. I used such tactics against a party of a similar level with a Halfling rogue to even the odds, and it worked very well. Dice rolls matter a lot, but then they always do.</blockquote>

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