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Message: <blockquote data-quote="apsuman" data-source="post: 310600" data-attributes="member: 1769">Monk do well against other PC types.  This monk has a 16 STR because I wanted him to get a belt of Giant STR ( I later ruled it out) so that he could challenge a fighter with a grapple/bull rush/trip.  When fighting a centaur you must use different tactics, which is fine.It also means that the average level of the party is actually higher than 5.2 ...some one pulled a quote about what would be a challenge to a party, and it said something like +1 to +4 levels above would this level of challenge, and +5 to something else would this type of challenge, etc.With that quote in mind, I was saying that depending on the party level, a +1 level challenger might not be much of a challenge.  FOR EXAMPLE, if you had a party of 4 level 1 characters, a level 2 barbarian or fighter probably is a BIG challenge.If you had a party of level 5 characters and they faced a level six wizard, that would be a a tough challenge because the wizard would have firebell/lightning bolt/haste, an extra feat they the party members do not have, more magic items, etc.So, my inference is that this party of five, with two people at level 6 (including a wizard) and one that is a centaur with those benefits, is closer to being a level 6+ party and will be less challenged by a level 7 opponent than a level 5 party facing a level 6 opponent.Basically, the relative threat of a character being one level higher diminishes as the party gains levels.I think Hak has done the work on this...Imp. Invis (level 4 right?) would be more efficient.And this is a fine strategy, however, I tried to exclude level 7 wizards because of their arsenal of spells.  But since you mentioned it... As soon as you cast fireball, everyone will be after you.  If you cast summons first then you can stay invisible, but if creatues just start showing up, someone (the party wizard) will figure out what is going on, adn they shoudlbe looking for you.  If you cast summons while invisible, you will stay that way, but lose full round actions due to the casting times.  You only have so many second level spell slot, so repeated invisibility would take away some of your buffing spells of that level.Parties should be equipeed to handle invisible opponets.  Now, flying invisible opponents are another thing altogether. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But rogues do not get sneak attacks every round.  They can not sneak quickly, they have to be in melee or in 30' range to do the sneak attack damage, the barbarian could close that distace quickly.And as for Fighter/Barbarian types I would thing that as soon as they showed up the parties front line fighters would just engage him, 2-to-1 and he would not last long.You really think that a Barbarian would be able to run in and kill a third to half of the party?  I would be really really surprized.  Same with a fighter, ranger, bard, and cleric.  Druids might do this job better but should still be beaten back pretty quickly.Which is my point I think the monk would make a fine adversary to this party for a challenge and would do as well, or perhaps better than any other class except the wizard.If the monk is just killed/beaten/subdued/captured as fast as any other class then it shows that they are just as good (or bad) as any other class.g!</blockquote>

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