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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6779836" data-attributes="member: 996">If you set the DC to 8 + attack bonus then the save would take into account the skill of the attacker (attack bonus includes proficiency).Then you could use the lower of STR mod or DEX mod to calculate the attack bonus (or DC if using a save).&nbsp; Sort of anti-finesse (finesse lets you use STR or DEX at your option - presumably you always choose the higher, this would force you to use the lower, so 'optimal' is equal STR &amp; DEX). Yes, though at high level there are much worse things to fail your DEX save against than a Net.&nbsp; So it's really just a symptom of a larger issue (I won't say 'problem' because it could well be intended), that the design of saves makes you relatively more likely to fail a non-proficient save as you level up.Again, that's an inconsistency with DEX saves, in general.&nbsp; You have a choice of inconsistencies, really.&nbsp; If vs AC, then armor helps when it 'realistically' shouldn't.&nbsp; If DEX save, then heavy armor doesn't hurt when 'realistically,' perhaps, it should.&nbsp;Sounds reasonable to me.&nbsp; In concept, I like the idea of the player rolling as much as possible (so rolling attacks, but rolling saves when attacked), but I've never implemented it.&nbsp; Mathematically, it doesn't matter who rolls the dice, the chance of success can be identical.5e has some attacks that use attack rolls (weapons, many cantrips, some spells, claw &amp; fang, etc) and some (spells, breath weapons, poisons, etc) that force saving throws, instead.&nbsp; The diving line is part tradition, part how one would defend against the attack (in particular whether it needs to overcome armor).&nbsp; In the case of the net, they chose the former over the latter.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6779836, member: 996"] If you set the DC to 8 + attack bonus then the save would take into account the skill of the attacker (attack bonus includes proficiency). Then you could use the lower of STR mod or DEX mod to calculate the attack bonus (or DC if using a save). Sort of anti-finesse (finesse lets you use STR or DEX at your option - presumably you always choose the higher, this would force you to use the lower, so 'optimal' is equal STR & DEX). Yes, though at high level there are much worse things to fail your DEX save against than a Net. So it's really just a symptom of a larger issue (I won't say 'problem' because it could well be intended), that the design of saves makes you relatively more likely to fail a non-proficient save as you level up. Again, that's an inconsistency with DEX saves, in general. You have a choice of inconsistencies, really. If vs AC, then armor helps when it 'realistically' shouldn't. If DEX save, then heavy armor doesn't hurt when 'realistically,' perhaps, it should. Sounds reasonable to me. In concept, I like the idea of the player rolling as much as possible (so rolling attacks, but rolling saves when attacked), but I've never implemented it. Mathematically, it doesn't matter who rolls the dice, the chance of success can be identical. 5e has some attacks that use attack rolls (weapons, many cantrips, some spells, claw & fang, etc) and some (spells, breath weapons, poisons, etc) that force saving throws, instead. The diving line is part tradition, part how one would defend against the attack (in particular whether it needs to overcome armor). In the case of the net, they chose the former over the latter. [/QUOTE]

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