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<blockquote data-quote="abirdcall" data-source="post: 6911911" data-attributes="member: 6748898">Let's make an actual comparison. Here is a standard party's damage output at 5th level when not expending resources. This will err on the low side.Fighter Longsword/Shield Dueling - 21 dmgRogue Rapier - 19 dmgCleric Sacred Flame - 9 dmgTotal damage: 49Bard Vicious Mockery - 5 dmgorWizard Firebolt - 11 dmg= 54 dmg or 60 dmgVicious Mockery represents a 10% loss in damage per round in this scenario.Let's compare with a couple monsters (note that the calculations are different in order to incorporate the to hit difference of disadvantage):Hill Giant CR 5 - 2 attacks 18 dmg each +8 to hit - against AC 18 will hit 55% and w/disadvantage 30%. So from 20 to 15 dmg/round. That is a 25% loss in dpr.Troll CR 5 - 3 attacks 7, 11, 11 +7 to hit. 50/25% to hit. 14.5/12.75 or a 12% loss in dpr.So even against a Troll it still comes out ahead of Firebolt.I think the only cantrips that can compete with Vicious Mockery are Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade and an enhanced Eldritch Blast.It should also be said that most cantrips scale poorly at high level. Eventually you will want to use low level AoE/Save or Suck spells to take out low threat hordes/brutes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="abirdcall, post: 6911911, member: 6748898"] Let's make an actual comparison. Here is a standard party's damage output at 5th level when not expending resources. This will err on the low side. Fighter Longsword/Shield Dueling - 21 dmg Rogue Rapier - 19 dmg Cleric Sacred Flame - 9 dmg Total damage: 49 Bard Vicious Mockery - 5 dmg or Wizard Firebolt - 11 dmg = 54 dmg or 60 dmg Vicious Mockery represents a 10% loss in damage per round in this scenario. Let's compare with a couple monsters (note that the calculations are different in order to incorporate the to hit difference of disadvantage): Hill Giant CR 5 - 2 attacks 18 dmg each +8 to hit - against AC 18 will hit 55% and w/disadvantage 30%. So from 20 to 15 dmg/round. That is a 25% loss in dpr. Troll CR 5 - 3 attacks 7, 11, 11 +7 to hit. 50/25% to hit. 14.5/12.75 or a 12% loss in dpr. So even against a Troll it still comes out ahead of Firebolt. I think the only cantrips that can compete with Vicious Mockery are Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade and an enhanced Eldritch Blast. It should also be said that most cantrips scale poorly at high level. Eventually you will want to use low level AoE/Save or Suck spells to take out low threat hordes/brutes. [/QUOTE]

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