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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Deekin" data-source="post: 3856552" data-attributes="member: 40924">Depends on your source material. The stuff I read has wizards tossing around minor effects all day, but having really big effects be limited. (Hey, look at that! That's what 4e is doing.)  I don't get how you can think the mechanics are horrible and wonky. They are basically spell slots that you can refresh without waiting 8 hours, but can't change out your preped spells. Except for Crusaders. They are wonky. The numbers are smaller than wizards. A 3rd level manuver with a greatsword might deal 6d6+1.5Str damage vs a wizards 5d6 fireball. You may point out that the strike deals more damage, but that is to a single target, while fireball hits everything in a 20 ft burst, possibly dealing that 5d6 to ten or more targets, wich raises the damage to 50d6.Manuvers, while non-magical, are still Extraordinary abilities.Extraordinary abilities are nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics. They are not something that just anyone can do or even learn to do without extensive training.It's the same thing as a rouge in a sealed 10x10x10ft room completely avoiding the 20ft radius fireball.   Depends on the material. complaining that you can't use 3.5 mechanics in 4th is stupid, akin to complaining you can't play N64 games on a Gamecube. On the other hand, fluff is always useful.  Just make sure to at least give it a look over before you condemn it based on it's cover.  I don't see an game world logic being tossed around. The Relms is being reset, and Eberron dosn't have that much set around magic. As for Special-casing, where do you see that? 3rd ed has never had any shreads of medieval romance and real world mythology, aside from a few names, nor has it ever made sense. We don't know if anyone has unlimited healing, and I don't get the complaint about high level powers. Do you want the Fighter to be restricted to real life when the Wizard can grant himself wishes?</blockquote>

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