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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sundragon2012" data-source="post: 3857118" data-attributes="member: 7624">Well if it comes down to it, I like Vanilla fantasy myself....wizards, dragons, pseudo-medieval kingdoms, elves, etc. However I would argue that one doesn't need a whole lot of D&Disms to make that kind of setup run properly.You can have an outstanding and thoroughly D&Dish campaign running without having the Great Wheel, Illithids, Beholders, Fireballs, Mordenkainen, Bigby, Asmodeus, Magic Missle and Drow. In fact I would think that new players would likely be envisioning their fantasy concepts without these things to begin with because no non-D&D fantasy literature or film includes these elements. Only after playing D&D for years, does a player become D&Dized into thinking these things are needed elements of any fantasy, even D&D fantasy. Prior to this, the potential D&D player who has cut his teeth on Tolkien, Robert E. Howard, George R.R. Martin, Robert Jordan, ect. would be wondering, "What the hell is a Great Wheel?" "What's a drow and how on earth did any elf get associated with arachnids?" and "Why the hell do these wizards suffer a mindwipe after casting a spell?"It was years into me DMing before I used many of the D&Disms at all except as behind the scenes realities that I could change at any time without any loss or damage to my campaign. I swear that if I have used green slimes, gelatinus cubes, mimics, stirges, rust monsters, modrons or D&D's other purely D&D monsters (read: monsters seeming to exist only to dwell in dungeons, justify alignments and mess with PCs) 20X in 23years I would be surprised.D&D is IMO the mechanics, the spells, the stats, ie. the system. It is a system that can be ported to any number of fantasy concepts and that IMO is its strength. I shouldn't have said Greyhawk didn't have flavor. I should have said that 3.0-3.5 core setting Greyhawk is flavorless, souless and evil. It is the demonborn bastard child of the original Greyhawk and souless "suits" who merely wanted to jack up 3e sales by adding the Greyhawk name for the sake of brand recognition and grognard cred.Greyhawk deserves more respect than it has gotten in the 3e era.Sundragon</blockquote>

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