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<blockquote data-quote="Bagpuss" data-source="post: 3858185" data-attributes="member: 3987">It bothers me more because of the all or nothing effect you are going to get with area effect attacks. When players all rolled their own saves, there was a chance that some PC's would make it, others wouldn't so the chance of everyone failing at the same time was slim, so some players could continue the fight while other took time out to recover.Now if the enemy rolls well every one with get hit for full damage (or double on a critical), and you are all in trouble at the same time.For example, last night the party got hit by two overlapping acid cones, I with my terrible +4 Reflex save actually made both saves (20pts damage), the elven wizard with his average +7, failed both (40 points damage), and the Monk made one (evasion) and failed another (8 pts), the paladin passed one and failed one (14pts). Because of the mix of damage The melee types were able to cover the wizard while he withdrew to recover.Now in 4e if the attackers both rolled well we would all be taking 40 pts of damage or worse if they got a critical all taking more. So there would no one in a position to defend the others while they recover. Unless they has significantly weakened the damage on AoE spells, or given some other way round this and abilities I can see this being a real problem.That to me is a case of fixing something that isn't broken and in turn creating a new problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bagpuss, post: 3858185, member: 3987"] It bothers me more because of the all or nothing effect you are going to get with area effect attacks. When players all rolled their own saves, there was a chance that some PC's would make it, others wouldn't so the chance of everyone failing at the same time was slim, so some players could continue the fight while other took time out to recover. Now if the enemy rolls well every one with get hit for full damage (or double on a critical), and you are all in trouble at the same time. For example, last night the party got hit by two overlapping acid cones, I with my terrible +4 Reflex save actually made both saves (20pts damage), the elven wizard with his average +7, failed both (40 points damage), and the Monk made one (evasion) and failed another (8 pts), the paladin passed one and failed one (14pts). Because of the mix of damage The melee types were able to cover the wizard while he withdrew to recover. Now in 4e if the attackers both rolled well we would all be taking 40 pts of damage or worse if they got a critical all taking more. So there would no one in a position to defend the others while they recover. Unless they has significantly weakened the damage on AoE spells, or given some other way round this and abilities I can see this being a real problem. That to me is a case of fixing something that isn't broken and in turn creating a new problem. [/QUOTE]

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