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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1344850" data-attributes="member: 3146">There are two things to point out about the viability of grappling characters:1. The theoretically maximized fighter grappler ought to have Enlarge Person cast on him. Now he's at +27. If he's a fighter grappler, odds are decent he's got one or two barbarian levels which would put him at +29. That's actually not too far from the cloud giant's grapple score. (It's actually better than the young adult green dragon's +27).2. Not all high CR foes are as tough to grapple as giants. An 11th level fighter, for instance, is much easier. An 11th level wizard is dramatically easier. A Hezrou demon (also CR 11) is only +19 (and he's supposed to be something of a grappler himself). A CR 11 Hamatula is +22 to grapple. (Although grappling one would hurt). A Stone Golem is +23.Grapplers will often be at a disadvantage at high levels but won't always be at a disadvantage by any stretch of the imagination.3. Most grapplers will have options other than grappling.-Monk grapplers have Flurries and a variety of non-grapple bonus feats like Improved Trip and Combat Reflexes-The theoretical fighter/barbarian grappler has (let's make him a half-orc Ftr 8/Bbn 3) 9 feats to play with1. Improved Unarmed Strike2. Improved Grapple3. Weapon Focus: Grapple4. Weapon Specialization: Grapple5. Greater Weapon Focus: GrappleThat leaves him with 4 feats for other things. (If he's using builder books, one of them ought to be clever wrestling). So he could also have:Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat ReflexesOrExotic Weapon: Spiked Chain, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus: Spiked Chain, Weapon Specialization: Spiked ChainOr:Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Lineand still have plenty of tricks up his sleeve when he's not grappling.</blockquote>

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