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<blockquote data-quote="Kraydak" data-source="post: 4601205" data-attributes="member: 12306">PC vs. NPC scaling by level: PCs scale at about -1/7 levels slower than NPCs, in d20 roll categories which they are stat pumping.&nbsp; This hits -4 at around lvl 30, and 4 is where things *break* on d20s.&nbsp; It gets worse in non-pumped rolls, and there 4e doesn't give you ways to end-run like Mind Blank.+Extra stat on d20 roll abilities start giving things like +/- 8 by the Epic tier.&nbsp; This can take you from 50% success rates to 0/100% success rates.&nbsp; Witness the Orb wizard.&nbsp; Or, more simply, compare the party whose warlord landed Lead the Attack (lvl 1 ability!!) against a solo to the party whose warlord failed to land it (or the party without the warlord at all).&nbsp; +8 to hit will at least double the party's melee output.&nbsp; In 3e, the assumption was that *everyone* had *multiple* ways to hit the needed damage output, and would use them until they worked.&nbsp; 4e doesn't give you enough similar options to make them reliable.3e solved the problem of huge power scales (and, with character specialization, huge power differentials) by providing large numbers of ways to solve any given problem.&nbsp; It is a solution.&nbsp; It isn't an elegant solution.&nbsp; I am largely convinced that there *is* no elegant solution.&nbsp; If you want a gaming system that works at the demi-god power level, that doesn't channel everyone into being clones, it will get messy.&nbsp; Accept it and work with it.You mean like Lead the Attack to (possibly) triple your side's DPR, leading to unbalanceable fights from the DM's perspective (if the fight is balanced with LtA and it misses, TPK, if it is balanced w/o LtA, it becomes trivial with it)?&nbsp; Demi-god ED+(lots of things) to insta-gib your foes?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kraydak, post: 4601205, member: 12306"] PC vs. NPC scaling by level: PCs scale at about -1/7 levels slower than NPCs, in d20 roll categories which they are stat pumping. This hits -4 at around lvl 30, and 4 is where things *break* on d20s. It gets worse in non-pumped rolls, and there 4e doesn't give you ways to end-run like Mind Blank. +Extra stat on d20 roll abilities start giving things like +/- 8 by the Epic tier. This can take you from 50% success rates to 0/100% success rates. Witness the Orb wizard. Or, more simply, compare the party whose warlord landed Lead the Attack (lvl 1 ability!!) against a solo to the party whose warlord failed to land it (or the party without the warlord at all). +8 to hit will at least double the party's melee output. In 3e, the assumption was that *everyone* had *multiple* ways to hit the needed damage output, and would use them until they worked. 4e doesn't give you enough similar options to make them reliable. 3e solved the problem of huge power scales (and, with character specialization, huge power differentials) by providing large numbers of ways to solve any given problem. It is a solution. It isn't an elegant solution. I am largely convinced that there *is* no elegant solution. If you want a gaming system that works at the demi-god power level, that doesn't channel everyone into being clones, it will get messy. Accept it and work with it. You mean like Lead the Attack to (possibly) triple your side's DPR, leading to unbalanceable fights from the DM's perspective (if the fight is balanced with LtA and it misses, TPK, if it is balanced w/o LtA, it becomes trivial with it)? Demi-god ED+(lots of things) to insta-gib your foes? [/QUOTE]

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