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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Whisper72" data-source="post: 3855110" data-attributes="member: 17339">First of all, this is kind of a silly question. There is no 'best' amount, at least, this differs per individual / group who plays. It is for everyone out there themselves to decide when too much is too much.Well, I am saying 'more like', I am not saying it is no longer an RPG. My personal definition, but remember, to each his own, is that a game stops being an RPG the moment the personalities of the PC's no longer matter. This in itself does not have any DIRECT relation to the use of mini's, all I am saying is that by using mini's a lot, as a general trend, people are more inclined to think about the powers, position and items in possession of the PC's.For me, if all I am doing during combat is measuring distances and looking and thinking of the optimal way of attacking, and no longer think 'what would my PC do, because of WHO he is, not because of WHAT he has', then IMHO it has become a wargame and no longer an RPG. At that moment! Naturally, if ppl fight their combats that way, and roleplay the 'rest' of the game, the entire GAME is still roleplaying as far as I am concerned, it has simply become a little less so overall.Now, if you like this style of playing, you should definately do this, and since wargaming is a perfectly cool gaming style anyhoo, I do not see anything wrong with that. The answer to the original questioner, regardless on whether this is actually currently the case, is for me that I personally rather NOT play with mini's. This implies that if the game becomes such that I feel forced (I KNOW, nobody actually forces me, but I hope you understand what I mean, by FEELING forced) to start using mini's because otherwise plenty of rules do not make sense anymore (such as the 5 foot schuffle, the flanking stuff, AoO etc., which are practically impossible to adjudic without the use of mini's or counters), then for ME, who does NOT want to use mini's because of my previous post reasonings, will feel that the game is getting less fun.Understand, as ppl have said, under any edition, mini's were used and available, however, the rules then were so generic and fuzzy, that there has never been any moment in my DM'ming life (22 years now) that I ever even remotely felt the need for mini's. Now I do. In the past any one could CHOOSE freely whether to use them or not, now there is a tendency that one cannot use certain rules effectively WITHOUT them. This is the difference. Nobody is saying or has ever said that anyone is 'playing DnD wrong using mini's', but nowadays, it almost seems as if the rules are starting to say, 'if you're NOT using mini's, you're not playing DnD, cause it is meant to be played with them'. It is THAT which has some people riled....</blockquote>

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