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<blockquote data-quote="Benjamin Olson" data-source="post: 8720566" data-attributes="member: 6988941">I don't see a problem with Perception for me. On some characters I take it, on others I don't. I don't particularly have more fun on the perceptive characters vs. ones good at other skills. It's definitely a top tier skill, but I don't find it radically more valuable than Stealth or Persuasion, or various others depending on the table.If I was at a table that just did constant &quot;everyone who fails a Perception check is surprised&quot; ambushes it might graduate to some sort of too good to pass up status for me, because I hate missing my turn.&nbsp; Similarly if my tables more often had non-combat situations where there were perception checks and only the perceivers were allowed to respond to things I'd prioritize it higher, because I like to participate in all parts of the game. And certainly I think there are other DM practices that can make Perception too good to pass up at particular tables. As is it is &quot;one of the best&quot; but not &quot;must have&quot; for me.What I think makes people feel a need to take Perception is that &quot;everyone makes a Perception check&quot; situations are pretty common in most campaigns, and you feel lame if you do poorly even if it doesn't really matter that your individual character failed. Meanwhile if you are terrible at Arcana you just don't try to analyze the arcane properties of things, and I've never been asked to participate in a group Arcana check. Combine the fact that every character will make at least a few Perception checks, with it actually being effectively a must-have skill at some tables and it we have it getting the gold (or sky blue, or whatever they use) rating in every character build guide and having the reputation as some sort of &quot;too powerful&quot;, &quot;must-have&quot; skill that some people feel they need to &quot;fix&quot;. My advice is for DMs to not lock too much stuff behind Perception checks and for players to not worry so much and just play less perceptive characters sometimes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Benjamin Olson, post: 8720566, member: 6988941"] I don't see a problem with Perception [I]for me[/I]. On some characters I take it, on others I don't. I don't particularly have more fun on the perceptive characters vs. ones good at other skills. It's definitely a top tier skill, but I don't find it radically more valuable than Stealth or Persuasion, or various others depending on the table. If I was at a table that just did constant "everyone who fails a Perception check is surprised" ambushes it might graduate to some sort of too good to pass up status for me, because I hate missing my turn. Similarly if my tables more often had non-combat situations where there were perception checks and only the perceivers were allowed to respond to things I'd prioritize it higher, because I like to participate in all parts of the game. And certainly I think there are other DM practices that can make Perception too good to pass up at particular tables. As is it is "one of the best" but not "must have" for me. What I think makes people feel a need to take Perception is that "everyone makes a Perception check" situations are pretty common in most campaigns, and you feel lame if you do poorly even if it doesn't really matter that your individual character failed. Meanwhile if you are terrible at Arcana you just don't try to analyze the arcane properties of things, and I've never been asked to participate in a group Arcana check. Combine the fact that every character will make at least a few Perception checks, with it actually being effectively a must-have skill at [I]some[/I] tables and it we have it getting the gold (or sky blue, or whatever they use) rating in every character build guide and having the reputation as some sort of "too powerful", "must-have" skill that some people feel they need to "fix". My advice is for DMs to not lock too much stuff behind Perception checks and for players to not worry so much and just play less perceptive characters sometimes. [/QUOTE]

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