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<blockquote data-quote="ConcreteBuddha" data-source="post: 422789" data-attributes="member: 3139">Okay then. We'll drop the first two feats from a Fighter and see if we like playing that, hmmm...?Dueling a Ranger and a Fighter is not a good way of figuring out class balance. Especially with a use-specific spell like Entangle or an overpowered spell like Hunter's Mercy.The reason why I believe that the spells are inferior at that level is because they have limited use in comparison to the level they are acquired at to defeat creatures of appropriate CR.For example: Entangle is completely useless at high levels, as a DC 15 Reflex save is absurdly easy, flying creatures abound and most creatures can break out of it no problem. Besides, it is dependent on the amount of foliage, which is not necessarily prevalent in high-level campaigns. (The Abyss has few gardens.)&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Nondetection, Freedom of Movement and Polymorph Self were all brought up by green slime. Granted, these are definitely good spells. But can't the resident Wizard cast them often enough already at L15? Are they worth giving up those extra feats?&nbsp;True, however, that same fighter at level 4 has 5 feats plus Track, while the Ranger has 3 feats plus Track (and Ambidexterity and TWF). At this level it is balanced, at higher levels, the Fighter pulls ahead in feats, so that burning a feat in Track isn't a waste at all. As per class skills: the winners are Spot, Listen and Wilderness Lore. Do they really need to be at max ranks to be effective?....Hunter's Mercy:&nbsp;Please defend the PHB Ranger without Hunter's Mercy.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ConcreteBuddha, post: 422789, member: 3139"] Okay then. We'll drop the first two feats from a Fighter and see if we like playing that, hmmm...? [B][/B] Dueling a Ranger and a Fighter is not a good way of figuring out class balance. Especially with a use-specific spell like Entangle or an overpowered spell like Hunter's Mercy. The reason why I believe that the spells are inferior at that level is because they have limited use in comparison to the level they are acquired at to defeat creatures of appropriate CR. For example: Entangle is completely useless at high levels, as a DC 15 Reflex save is absurdly easy, flying creatures abound and most creatures can break out of it no problem. Besides, it is dependent on the amount of foliage, which is not necessarily prevalent in high-level campaigns. (The Abyss has few gardens.) ;) Nondetection, Freedom of Movement and Polymorph Self were all brought up by green slime. Granted, these are definitely good spells. But can't the resident Wizard cast them often enough already at L15? Are they worth giving up those extra feats? [B] [/B] True, however, that same fighter at level 4 has 5 feats plus Track, while the Ranger has 3 feats plus Track (and Ambidexterity and TWF). At this level it is balanced, at higher levels, the Fighter pulls ahead in feats, so that burning a feat in Track isn't a waste at all. As per class skills: the winners are Spot, Listen and Wilderness Lore. Do they really need to be at max ranks to be effective? . . . . Hunter's Mercy: [B] [/B] Please defend the PHB Ranger without Hunter's Mercy. [/QUOTE]

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