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<blockquote data-quote="Gaiden" data-source="post: 425767" data-attributes="member: 103">Perhaps I was not clear with what I meant.&nbsp; All else being equal, the rogue is better than the ranger at stealth.&nbsp; This means all aspect of stealth - not just moving and hiding.&nbsp; This means Moving Silently, Hiding, Reconnaissance (spotting, listening and reading lips while hidden), Using any magic to aid in stealth - UMD, (not just ranger spells).&nbsp; and most importantly, attacking with stealth.&nbsp; A rogue will always be better than a ranger at stealth - considering SA, his greater skill points, needing mainly Dex, Int and Chr as opposed to Str, Dex, Con (to a lesser degree), and Wis, and his magic versatility.However, a ranger does come darn close - you are right about the equal hide and MS ranks (of course this has a higher cost to a ranger than a rogue).&nbsp; And in fact, that closeness serves to proove my point - Rangers rock.&nbsp; You have made the case that they are equal to rogues and I am saying they are almost as good - either way, we agree that they are darn GOOD at stealth - and combining that with fighters BAB and HD is awesome.And as Souljourner said - the spells are just gravy.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gaiden, post: 425767, member: 103"] Perhaps I was not clear with what I meant. All else being equal, the rogue is better than the ranger at stealth. This means all aspect of stealth - not just moving and hiding. This means Moving Silently, Hiding, Reconnaissance (spotting, listening and reading lips while hidden), Using any magic to aid in stealth - UMD, (not just ranger spells). and most importantly, attacking with stealth. A rogue will always be better than a ranger at stealth - considering SA, his greater skill points, needing mainly Dex, Int and Chr as opposed to Str, Dex, Con (to a lesser degree), and Wis, and his magic versatility. However, a ranger does come darn close - you are right about the equal hide and MS ranks (of course this has a higher cost to a ranger than a rogue). And in fact, that closeness serves to proove my point - Rangers rock. You have made the case that they are equal to rogues and I am saying they are almost as good - either way, we agree that they are darn GOOD at stealth - and combining that with fighters BAB and HD is awesome. And as Souljourner said - the spells are just gravy. [/QUOTE]

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