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Message: <blockquote data-quote="boredgremlin" data-source="post: 5831114" data-attributes="member: 31646">After de-railing my own thread with this question I figured i would give it its own. When it comes to the things that are D&D tropes to people I think thats where WoTC has gotten into trouble before. 1e and 4e are basically completely different games. Theres a few similar names but other then rolling a D20 for lots of stuff how much do they really have in common mechanically? Not too much IMO. 3e was closer to 2e and probably closer to 4e then 4e is to 1e (geez thats a tongue twister) but now 5e is supposedly trying to bring them all together. A doomed effort to please everyone if ever there was one. 4e made a lot of people angry because they changed so much from 3e. I remember 3e making some people angry because it was so much more complicated then 2e and some stuff just felt weird in comparison. Maybe thats a poll we need to see Monte put up instead of the stupid ones they've done so far. What actually IS a D&Dism to people?Iconic classes? They change all time. Except for fighter, cleric, magic user and thief. Everything else is constantly coming and going in different editions and splat books. Races? 4e added to that with decidedly mixed results among the gaming community. the 6 ability scores? Thats probably safe to assume. HP?  A 4e guy starts out with almost as many HP as a 1e cleric MAXES out at. And anyway UA had variants and I believe a 4e book did as well. Vancian magic? Lots of people hate it, 4e changed it, lots of people hated that too, 5e means to change it back and no one seems overly thrilled by that either. So what actually IS a necessary D&Dism to everyone is probably the most important question for a new edition. And oddly, the only one they dont seem to have bothered to ask yet. For me if i had to pick one its ORCS. Not any of the other stuff. If theres one thing thats been consistent throughout the editions its that Orcs are big, trouble making jerks that constantly need to be killed. Orcs and the fighters that chop them up are about the only things I can imagine a hardcore 1e adherent and a 4e lover talking about and being completely on the same page with no arguments. Invading an orc lair and killing the pesky bastards is a universal D&D experience. How we kill them changes, the races and classes that kill them change, the spells that make them easier to kill come and go. Even the weapons we off them with change (I'm looking at you 3e, double axe, double sword, double stupid crap etc. etc. ) but the basic theme of go in there and dice em up so they stop causing trouble never goes away.  So what does everyone else think is a necessary D&Dism?</blockquote>

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