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<blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 1642403" data-attributes="member: 10201">Huh? &quot;pulp noir&quot;? isn't that sort of a contradiction in terms? i mean, pulp is mostly about the sort of B&amp;W morality of our administration (or the Hollywood Western): i'm the good guy, regardless of what i do, and he's the bad guy regardless of his motives. Noir is very much about the shades-of-gray morality of questioning the balance of means and ends, and exploring what exactly makes someone the &quot;good guy&quot;--or if there even can be such a person. Huh? I'll give you &quot;swashbuckling adventure and intrigue&quot; as a reasonable definition of &quot;adventure pulp&quot;, which is what most people mean when they say &quot;pulp&quot;--we tend to gloss over the breadth of material that comprised the true pulps. But what does any of that have to do with &quot;noir&quot;, presumably as in &quot;film noir&quot;--a genre characterized by moral ambiguity, a frequent lack of pure-hearted goodguys, fairly realistic depictions of violence, general pessimism, and a decided lack of over-the-top swashbuckling?Friend found this at <a href="http://www.crimeculture.com/Contents/Film%20Noir.html" target="_blank">http://www.crimeculture.com/Contents/Film Noir.html</a> :I've not seen references to any of that in the stuff i've read about Eberron. Again, if anything, it seems like noir and pulp are antithetical, and, IIRC, it would be reasonable to assert that one of the things film noir was reacting against was the simplistic morality and generally-optimistic tone of the sort of literature found in the adventure pulps.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="woodelf, post: 1642403, member: 10201"] Huh? "pulp noir"? isn't that sort of a contradiction in terms? i mean, pulp is mostly about the sort of B&W morality of our administration (or the Hollywood Western): i'm the good guy, regardless of what i do, and he's the bad guy regardless of his motives. Noir is very much about the shades-of-gray morality of questioning the balance of means and ends, and exploring what exactly makes someone the "good guy"--or if there even can be such a person. Huh? I'll give you "swashbuckling adventure and intrigue" as a reasonable definition of "adventure pulp", which is what most people mean when they say "pulp"--we tend to gloss over the breadth of material that comprised the true pulps. But what does any of that have to do with "noir", presumably as in "film noir"--a genre characterized by moral ambiguity, a frequent lack of pure-hearted goodguys, fairly realistic depictions of violence, general pessimism, and a decided lack of over-the-top swashbuckling? Friend found this at [url]http://www.crimeculture.com/Contents/Film%20Noir.html[/url] : I've not seen references to any of that in the stuff i've read about Eberron. Again, if anything, it seems like noir and pulp are antithetical, and, IIRC, it would be reasonable to assert that one of the things film noir was reacting against was the simplistic morality and generally-optimistic tone of the sort of literature found in the adventure pulps. [/QUOTE]

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