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General Tabletop Discussion
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What's your opinion on "Save or Die" effects?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7596149" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>I think, ultimately, they were a bad implementation of a good idea.</p><p></p><p>The idea is that if you're going to play the hero of some fantasy story, you're going to need the same perplexing 'plot armor' those heroes always seem to have. </p><p></p><p>Hit points were a better implementation of the same idea. Your hero doesn't just get stabbed and die like normal people do, he somehow escapes the deadly thrust each time (until his luck runs out). They're something you can manage as part of play, from both the player & DM perspectives. They still distort things if you take them too literally, rather than as plot armor, but whatever, I've yet to see an alternative work a lot better.</p><p></p><p>The idea of saves is that they can, well, save your character when he 'should have been killed' (or something equally final), so poison, magically turned to stone, that sort of thing, were given "saves." And beloved, long-time, high level characters had /much/ better saves.</p><p></p><p>The problem is that it was wrong-headed to make the distinction in the first place. Poison kills you, gorgons turn you to stone, etc - but a knife in the heart kills you just as certainly. Why does the dagger do 1-4/1-3, and the poison save-or-die? </p><p>Because Gygax goofed. </p><p>The poison should just do poison damage. </p><p>Because hps, for all their issues, are a better system for modeling plot armor. </p><p></p><p>JMHO</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7596149, member: 996"] I think, ultimately, they were a bad implementation of a good idea. The idea is that if you're going to play the hero of some fantasy story, you're going to need the same perplexing 'plot armor' those heroes always seem to have. Hit points were a better implementation of the same idea. Your hero doesn't just get stabbed and die like normal people do, he somehow escapes the deadly thrust each time (until his luck runs out). They're something you can manage as part of play, from both the player & DM perspectives. They still distort things if you take them too literally, rather than as plot armor, but whatever, I've yet to see an alternative work a lot better. The idea of saves is that they can, well, save your character when he 'should have been killed' (or something equally final), so poison, magically turned to stone, that sort of thing, were given "saves." And beloved, long-time, high level characters had /much/ better saves. The problem is that it was wrong-headed to make the distinction in the first place. Poison kills you, gorgons turn you to stone, etc - but a knife in the heart kills you just as certainly. Why does the dagger do 1-4/1-3, and the poison save-or-die? Because Gygax goofed. The poison should just do poison damage. Because hps, for all their issues, are a better system for modeling plot armor. JMHO [/QUOTE]
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What's your opinion on "Save or Die" effects?
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