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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 676240" data-attributes="member: 4937">Err.. what makes you think that <various list of iconic heroes> aren't built with say 40 pts?  50 tops.   40 is greater than 32.  So what.   Doesn't mean your character is ultimately going to be less important than Character X.  You can save the world as a 15 point character.  You can be the protagonist of the story as a 15 point character.40-45 points is about the most I would build an NPC with - and those would be as you said the famous people - sons of kings, heroes of renown, and so forth.  Mostly such icons never seem to do anything.  They just sit around and brood about thier problems.   I don't really need more potant NPC's than that (between wishes and stat boosting items and improvement with levels, I could get virtually any stat for the NPC no matter what they started out with anyway).  I don't personally believe they make humans much more advantaged than that.  Certainly not in the typical low population fantasy world.  FR immediately struck me as some juvenile ego fantasy and turned me off immediately, so don't even bring it up to me as a standard to compete with.  FR is dog<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.  Worst fantasy setting ever published.  Spelljammer was more creative, original, and well thought out (sad as that is to say).  But I'll stop ranting before I really say something offensive.I would rate stats like that to those to real people.  I'd rate those stats as superior to 95% of the people I've ever met, maybe more so.   And its not like I don't know a few high end of the talent scale people.   My younger brother was senior class president, and two time heavyweight state wrestling champion.  My wife has six NASA mission patches.Remember, 10 is AVERAGE.  Ten is not the low end.  50% of the population ought to be at 10 or less.  If noone in your campaign ever has worse numbers than a 10, you probably do feel like 14 and 15 are 'average' stats - but then you've redifined 'average' haven't you.Your seem to assume that you yourself are built with 30+ points, and therefore why heroes have to be built with 80 or something.  I assume that I am a 25 point or so human (though really D&D just doesn't translate into reality well), and I've met a few 35 point ones, and I figure somewhere in there is the range of real heroes.  Of course, all that arguement is silly.  Go to GURPS if you want to try to model realities."What if you were playing say the following concept: Knight trained from birth to fight and uphold the family honor on the field of battle.  Would you feel those stats would represent that well?"Well, actually yes.   I don't have as elevated expectations as you do apparantly.  Getting more than one +1 bonus seems great to a 1st edition player.Look, if you just have to get it out of your system, go ahead and play a campaign with 45 or 50 point characters or whatever you think is just boss.  I've done it.  Been there.  It's the bloody same game, only you get more players stroking themselves about how k3wl their characters are _because of some NUMBER_ (I've got 228 h.p., huh huh), and the DM has to rachet up all the encounters a notch to keep it interesting - so you kill the dragon at 9th level instead of 12th.  Big whoop. If I had a dollar for every guy that has walked up to me and bragged about thier half-elven cambion vampire werefolf fighter-mage-thief with 21 dex, or thier dual scimitar welding drow elf whatever, I'd be living a life of leisure now.Be Conan.  Knock yourself out.  It's fun to romp around for a while.  After a while you will realize that Conan is Conan because he has no peers, and that such literary pretentions are even more pretentious in a RPG than they are in a fantasy novel.  After a while you will realize that if you have all 18's and everyone you meet has all 14's (or 18's), then you are no better off than the guy who has all 14's who lives in a world where 10 is average.And neither high stats or low stats is a gaurantee of heroism or interesting play, much less fun.Errr rant off (blame it on me being tired)</blockquote>

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