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<blockquote data-quote="Lord Zardoz" data-source="post: 687693" data-attributes="member: 704">Ever consider 5d4 stat generation?So the debate here, as I am interpreting it has had the following points made.1)&nbsp; Standard point buy means that two characters of a given class are likely to have identical stats.2)&nbsp; Point buys lead to either crap stats in less useful abilities from min/maxing, or to absolute median characters.3)&nbsp; Point buy as written means that people are less likely to take a heavily stat dependent class (Paladin or Monk).4)&nbsp; Dice methods lead too easily to stat envy among players from rolling at the extremes (too high or too low)Why not try 5d4 generation?&nbsp; That method will put a higher amount of the stats in the median area then 4d6 drop 1.&nbsp; Since I got bored, I wrote a small program to brute force out some statistics:average score for 4d6 drop lowest = 12.244599&nbsp; &nbsp; iterations = 1296.000000average score for 5d4 drop lowest = 12.500000&nbsp; &nbsp; iterations = 1024.000000results:&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp; &nbsp; 1 (0.00% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; &nbsp; 0 (0.00% of rolls)&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp; &nbsp; 4 (0.00% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; &nbsp; 0 (0.00% of rolls)&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp;&nbsp; 10 (0.01% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; &nbsp; 1 (0.00% of rolls)&nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp;&nbsp; 21 (0.02% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; &nbsp; 5 (0.00% of rolls)&nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp;&nbsp; 38 (0.03% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp;&nbsp; 15 (0.01% of rolls)&nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp;&nbsp; 62 (0.05% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp;&nbsp; 35 (0.03% of rolls)&nbsp;&nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp;&nbsp; 91 (0.07% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp;&nbsp; 65 (0.06% of rolls)&nbsp;10&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp; 122 (0.09% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; 101 (0.10% of rolls)&nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp; 148 (0.11% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; 135 (0.13% of rolls)&nbsp;12&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp; 167 (0.13% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; 155 (0.15% of rolls)&nbsp; 13&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp; 172 (0.13% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; 155 (0.15% of rolls)&nbsp;14&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp; 160 (0.12% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; 135 (0.13% of rolls)&nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp; 131 (0.10% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; 101 (0.10% of rolls)&nbsp;16&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp;&nbsp; 94 (0.07% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp;&nbsp; 65 (0.06% of rolls)&nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp;&nbsp; 54 (0.04% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp;&nbsp; 35 (0.03% of rolls)&nbsp;18&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp;&nbsp; 21 (0.02% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp;&nbsp; 15 (0.01% of rolls)&nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp; &nbsp; 0 (0.00% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; &nbsp; 5 (0.00% of rolls)&nbsp;20&nbsp; &nbsp; on 4d6 drop:&nbsp; &nbsp; 0 (0.00% of rolls)&nbsp; &nbsp; on 5d4:&nbsp; &nbsp; 1 (0.00% of rolls)With the 5d4 method, you end up with roughly 76% of the results being between 10 and 15.&nbsp; The 4d6 drop method puts about 69 percent in that area.If you consider less then 10 to be an unacceptable stat, then 18% of the stats are in that range for 4d6 drop, while only 12% of the stats for 5d4 are unacceptabe.At the same time, hitting a 16 or greater is less likely to happen on 5d4.&nbsp; And though possible, the odds of hitting 19 or 20 on the dice are pretty much unheard of.Using 5d4 seems to be a useable solution to the four problems listed above, though it is not perfect.&nbsp; It is still very possible for someone to hit all stats above 13 while another ends up with all stats at 14 and below.END COMMUNICATION</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lord Zardoz, post: 687693, member: 704"] [b]Ever consider 5d4 stat generation?[/b] So the debate here, as I am interpreting it has had the following points made. 1) Standard point buy means that two characters of a given class are likely to have identical stats. 2) Point buys lead to either crap stats in less useful abilities from min/maxing, or to absolute median characters. 3) Point buy as written means that people are less likely to take a heavily stat dependent class (Paladin or Monk). 4) Dice methods lead too easily to stat envy among players from rolling at the extremes (too high or too low) Why not try 5d4 generation? That method will put a higher amount of the stats in the median area then 4d6 drop 1. Since I got bored, I wrote a small program to brute force out some statistics: average score for 4d6 drop lowest = 12.244599 iterations = 1296.000000 average score for 5d4 drop lowest = 12.500000 iterations = 1024.000000 results: [b] 3 on 4d6 drop: 1 (0.00% of rolls) on 5d4: 0 (0.00% of rolls)[/b] 4 on 4d6 drop: 4 (0.00% of rolls) on 5d4: 0 (0.00% of rolls) [b] 5 on 4d6 drop: 10 (0.01% of rolls) on 5d4: 1 (0.00% of rolls)[/b] 6 on 4d6 drop: 21 (0.02% of rolls) on 5d4: 5 (0.00% of rolls) [b] 7 on 4d6 drop: 38 (0.03% of rolls) on 5d4: 15 (0.01% of rolls)[/b] 8 on 4d6 drop: 62 (0.05% of rolls) on 5d4: 35 (0.03% of rolls) [b] 9 on 4d6 drop: 91 (0.07% of rolls) on 5d4: 65 (0.06% of rolls)[/b] 10 on 4d6 drop: 122 (0.09% of rolls) on 5d4: 101 (0.10% of rolls) [b] 11 on 4d6 drop: 148 (0.11% of rolls) on 5d4: 135 (0.13% of rolls)[/b] 12 on 4d6 drop: 167 (0.13% of rolls) on 5d4: 155 (0.15% of rolls) [b] 13 on 4d6 drop: 172 (0.13% of rolls) on 5d4: 155 (0.15% of rolls)[/b] 14 on 4d6 drop: 160 (0.12% of rolls) on 5d4: 135 (0.13% of rolls) [b] 15 on 4d6 drop: 131 (0.10% of rolls) on 5d4: 101 (0.10% of rolls)[/b] 16 on 4d6 drop: 94 (0.07% of rolls) on 5d4: 65 (0.06% of rolls) [b] 17 on 4d6 drop: 54 (0.04% of rolls) on 5d4: 35 (0.03% of rolls)[/b] 18 on 4d6 drop: 21 (0.02% of rolls) on 5d4: 15 (0.01% of rolls) [b] 19 on 4d6 drop: 0 (0.00% of rolls) on 5d4: 5 (0.00% of rolls)[/b] 20 on 4d6 drop: 0 (0.00% of rolls) on 5d4: 1 (0.00% of rolls) With the 5d4 method, you end up with roughly 76% of the results being between 10 and 15. The 4d6 drop method puts about 69 percent in that area. If you consider less then 10 to be an unacceptable stat, then 18% of the stats are in that range for 4d6 drop, while only 12% of the stats for 5d4 are unacceptabe. At the same time, hitting a 16 or greater is less likely to happen on 5d4. And though possible, the odds of hitting 19 or 20 on the dice are pretty much unheard of. Using 5d4 seems to be a useable solution to the four problems listed above, though it is not perfect. It is still very possible for someone to hit all stats above 13 while another ends up with all stats at 14 and below. END COMMUNICATION [/QUOTE]

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