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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 689344" data-attributes="member: 3146">Re: Ever consider 5d4 stat generation?No. It means that two characters of a given class, concept, and long term plan are likely to have similar stats.A first level fighter could have14, 14, 14, 14, 10, 10 (plans to be a fighter/wizard; also potential swashbuckler build)15, 10, 14, 10, 12, 14 (Heavy armor type, may have plans to multiclass paladin)10, 17, 14, 13, 10, 10 (swashbuckler type, may have plans to multiclass rogue)17, 10, 14, 12, 11, 10 (Two handed weapon bruiser; may be a half-orc or have plans to multiclass into Barbarian and Tribal Protector)Similarly, there are a number of ways that clerics could be built:14, 10, 14, 10, 15, 12 (pretty standard melee focussed cleric of a war god)10, 10, 10, 12, 17, 13 (pretty standard spellcasting and skill focussed cleric--probably with the knowledge domain)12, 14, 14, 10, 14, 12 (This guy may well be a cleric of Olidammara or Brandobaris (if a halfling) with plans to multiclass rogue)If point buy characters end with similar stats, it's probably because the players are making similar characters. Then again, it's true of 4d6-1 and other systems too. If my cleric ends up with 9, 11, 12, 15, 18,13 for stats, I don't think I'll be making a warrior priest of Heironeous--more likely a knowledge and magic priest of Wee Jas or Boccob. OTOH, if the cleric's stats are 16, 11, 15, 9, 15, 12. . . . well, half-orc cleric of Mayaheine, here I come!The "crap stats" in less useful abilities observation is true of any system in which players have the opportunity to arrange their ability scores. Even 4d6-1 arrange as you see fit won't result in barbarians with high int and high charisma (unless they plan on multiclassing). And if the player gets lucky and rolls nothing under 15, I'd be willing to bet they pick a class like Paladin or Monk that makes nearly every ability useful.Absolute median characters is only from the point of view that expects every PC to have an 18. If you're comfortable with the concept that a 16 is a very good stat, then point buy characters won't look median.Nonsense. It means that the choice is dependant upon their willingness to make sacrifices rather than their luck with the dice. People who roll for stats won't get many monks if their rolls are 18, 16, 13, 7, 9, 7.  (And if they can't rearrange their rolls, they'll see even fewer monks or paladins). And I doubt you'll see many 4d6 paladins if the rolls are 17, 13, 13, 11, 11, 9,7.Sometimes. Personally, I think that the biggest problem with rolling is that players can't say "I want to play a knight in shining armor whose faith protects him" (Fighter/Paladin/Cleric or multiclass thereof, placed in vague terms to avoid the "point buy powergamer--you can't think in non-mechanical terms, can you?" accusation) before rolling their dice. Players have to look at their dice and say "Let me see, I could make a pathetic paladin, a worthless monk, a halfway decent fighter/barbarian, or a good wizard with these rolls. I guess I'm not playing Sir Rudyard but rather Maximillian the Magnificent evoker of the third circle. Oh well."Having some PCs be overpowered for their level (effectively ECL +1 or +2) due to good rolls while others are underpowered (maybe ECL -1) due to poor rolls is second on the problem list.</blockquote>

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