When a CR 31 Advanced Great Wyrm MDJs your party...

[andargor]

The description of mordenkainen's disjunction indicates:

All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are separated into their individual components (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item. An item in a creature's possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor's Will save bonus, whichever is higher.

Does this mean that even if a character makes a Will save, each item in her possession must also save anyway, or does that happen only on a natural 1? Is this the exception mentioned in the following entry:

Damaging Magic Items

A magic item doesn't need to make a saving throw unless it is unattended, it is specifically targeted by the effect, or its wielder rolls a natural 1 on his save.

In essence, since mordenkainen's disjunction specifically mentions that each item must save, this trumps the character's own save to have her equipment avoid the effect entirely?

On a side note, this particular dragon was a tough SOB, we had to run after 2 deaths out of 5 characters in the party (levels 27 to 29). It had 5 "free" wishes... It used 4, including a heal effect which erased 800 HP of damage. Dammit, so close...

At least we're proud to have made him sweat, since he was +2 CR relative to us.

Andargor

Spoiler Warning:

Spoiler

PS: Those that have played the Quicksilver Hourglass from Dungeon #123 know what I'm talking about...

 

[UltimaGabe]

If you get hit by a Mordenkainen's Disjunction, you must make one will save for each and every magic item in your possession. If any of them fail, that item is permanently disjoined. This is a specific exception to the "magic items are only hurt on a natural 1" rule.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Yes, the items do have to save because unlike the other spells, which primarily target the creatures, Disjunction specifically targets them. Really, the way that Disjunction destroys any spell automatically (even epic spells) and destroys large quantities of magic items and even sometimes artefacts is crazy-broken, and that was one of the first spells that I completely houserules to a new system, as otherwise every epic spellcaster had to carry around Ring of Counterspells against it because it was just too dangerous to allow.

 

[andargor]

Yes, the items do have to save because unlike the other spells, which primarily target the creatures, Disjunction specifically targets them. Really, the way that Disjunction destroys any spell automatically (even epic spells) and destroys large quantities of magic items and even sometimes artefacts is crazy-broken, and that was one of the first spells that I completely houserules to a new system, as otherwise every epic spellcaster had to carry around Ring of Counterspells against it because it was just too dangerous to allow.

We house ruled it out, a "gentleperson's agreement" with our DM. But he pointed out that it is specifically mentioned in the adventure. And we were fairly mauling the dragon. So...

We have pretty good Will saves at that level, except the fighter of course... So a bunch of items got blasted, and all of the buffs and permanencies went bye-bye...

Incidentally, we're on the Rod of Seven Parts adventure path, and the Rod of Law (a major artifact) was on the fighter! But it survived... (wheew)

Anyway, thanks for the answers, it just confirms our worst fears...

Andargor

 

[Rystil Arden]

We house ruled it out, a "gentleperson's agreement" with our DM.

That's probably a good choice if you can't agree on a good houserule for the spell to make it more reasonable.

In the one I concocted, you make a Dispel check against every spell in the area, but instead of getting an automatic 11 as is normal for dispelling, the spells in question each get a 1 + caster level, making them much easier to dispel. Magic items that fail their saves are subject to being dispelled temporarily like Dispel Magic, and if they fail the Dispel Check by 10 or more, they are destroyed forever.

 

[dcollins]

Does this mean that even if a character makes a Will save, each item in her possession must also save anyway, or does that happen only on a natural 1? Is this the exception mentioned in the following entry... In essence, since mordenkainen's disjunction specifically mentions that each item must save, this trumps the character's own save to have her equipment avoid the effect entirely?

Also yes! Note that's fundamentally the same language copy-and-pasted since 1st Ed. AD&D.

 

[Artoomis]

Actaully, as written, MDJ should NEVER, EVER be used unless one is ABSOLUTELY sure the target(s) have NO artifacts - or, in pure desperation when no other choice seems viable.

Permanently losing all spellcasting abilties is a heavy price to pay. I think to even things out I'd apply this to spell-like abilities as well, though I'm not positve that's really correct by the rules.