When a rolled "1" isn't an automatic failure?

[DarkLord Of DForce]

I've seen posters say that a rolled natural "1" is only a failure on an attack roll. Is that right? Our group hasn't been playing it that way. If you're doing some kind of difficulty check and you roll a 1, in our sessions, its been an automatic failure, not added to whatever modifier applies.

Is there someplace in the PHBs that covers this? I tried looking and couldn't find it for anything besides the attack rolls.

Thanks!

 

[Steve Jung]

It's hard to prove a negative. It doesn't say in the Skills Chapter that a 1 is an automatic failure. So it isn't.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

The only place in the PHB that mentions anything about a Natural 1 on a roll is on pg. 276. And this is only referring to attacks. If it were to mean automatic failure for any other die roll it would be mentioned in the appropriate section. The natural 1 fails everything is something someone is dragging into 4th edition with them from 3.x. It doesn't exist except in reference to attacks.

 

[Aulirophile]

The only place in the PHB that mentions anything about a Natural 1 on a roll is on pg. 276. And this is only referring to attacks. If it were to mean automatic failure for any other die roll it would be mentioned in the appropriate section. The natural 1 fails everything is something someone is dragging into 4th edition with them from 3.x. It doesn't exist except in reference to attacks.

This is exactly correct.

 

[Holy Bovine]

The only place in the PHB that mentions anything about a Natural 1 on a roll is on pg. 276. And this is only referring to attacks. If it were to mean automatic failure for any other die roll it would be mentioned in the appropriate section. The natural 1 fails everything is something someone is dragging into 4th edition with them from 3.x. It doesn't exist except in reference to attacks.

In 3.x skill check didn't fail automatically on a natural 1 either, iirc.

 

[Legildur]

The natural 1 fails everything is something someone is dragging into 4th edition with them from 3.x. It doesn't exist except in reference to attacks.

I was about to add in all seriousness "so it's now possible to pass a saving throw with a natural 1?" forgetting that saving throws have now changed with 4E

 

[Aulirophile]

I was about to add in all seriousness "so it's now possible to pass a saving throw with a natural 1?" forgetting that saving throws have now changed with 4E

Actually there is a whole Revenant build based around auto-passing death saving throws while below 0.... all you need is +9. Since the build doesn't work completely till epic anyway (requires an epic feat for the real payoff) that isn't that hard.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Okay, thanks everyone!

 

[Samir]

DMG pg. 189:

Example House Rules
Here are a couple of sample house rules, followed by
discussions on their intended purpose.

[...]

CRITICAL SUCCESS AND FAILURE
On a skill or ability check, a roll of natural 20 is a criti-
cal success and a roll of natural 1 is a critical failure.

On a critical success, the check automatically suc-
ceeds, and you gain a +5 bonus to checks with that
skill until the end of your next turn. In a skill challenge,
add one extra victory to the tally.

On a critical failure, the check automatically fails,
and you take a –5 penalty to checks with that skill
until the end of your next turn. In a skill challenge, add
one extra defeat to the tally.

This house rule extends the symmetry of natural 20s
and natural 1s to skill checks. Some DMs don’t like the
idea of skill checks that always succeed, or conversely,
that have no chance in a desperate attempt.

The only reference I could find to failing a skill check on a natural 1 was in the DMG--as an example house rule. Also worth noting: natural 20s aren't normally automatic successes on skill checks.

This does seem to be a pretty popular house rule, though. My DM uses it, too.

 

[Squire James]

My house rule is fairly similar: A natural 1 is counted as a -10, and a natural 20 is counted as a 30. This means there are indeed situations where an action is impossible or cannot fail, but the circumstance has to be fairly extreme.