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When a rule is clear but leads to illogical efffects
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<blockquote data-quote="Bawylie" data-source="post: 7020906" data-attributes="member: 6776133"><p>I don't think this is a problem with the rules. I think the issue is how you applied the rule to the situation at hand. </p><p></p><p>The reason we have DMs (as opposed to some sort of physics simulator) is to adjudicate the outcomes of in-game decisions. The reason we have rules, traditions, texts, etc., is so that those adjudications are consistent, credible, and do not appear arbitrary. </p><p></p><p>Obviously the rules do not and cannot encompass the totality of possibilities (the rule book that attempted to do so would be preposterous in size and scope). So we must rely on consistent, credible adjudication to resolve ambiguities and weirdo corner cases. </p><p></p><p>However, from time to time, you're gonna get problems when the DM insists on putting the rules ahead of the decisions, particularly when strict application of the rules would result in a weirdo outcome. </p><p></p><p>"Your bro is covered in a swarm of bugs... and your plan is to whack the bugs with your Morningstar?" See, the bugs have an AC and HP and so the DM that puts the rules first says Go Ahead and then you get this weirdo scene where the attacker is swinging at bugs but missing his bro with the accuracy and delicacy of a surgeon. That's just not credible. That's an approach that should fail or even harm the bro. </p><p></p><p>The problem then is that the DM left the decision-making and adjudicating to the rules system instead of positing "just what would be the outcome here?" And making a ruling on the decision that way. </p><p></p><p>Much has been written about dis/associative mechanics, but that sort of thinking largely ignores in totality the DM's job here. These corner cases don't happen in a vacuum. They have in-game context. And ignoring that context in favor of a rules process is sub-optimal, sometimes even Bad DM-ing. It's shirking the job of the ref/judge, which is really, knowing how and when to apply those rules. Tip: it isn't Always in All Circumstances and it also isn't First, Before Any Consideration of Sense and Sensibility. </p><p></p><p>See saelorn's example of how a swim speed eliminates the penalties for wielding certain weapons underwater. On its face, that's a nonsensical rule. But if that swim speed were magically granted by some spell or item, then it's free-moving effects may well apply to attacks with weapons that would normally be useless underwater. </p><p></p><p>Circumstances matter. Judgment is often more important than rules. And rules are not Laws as much as they are guidelines and precedent. </p><p></p><p>"The mechanic is dissociative" is about as insightful as "This hammer makes a terrible fork." Well, yeah! You're gonna have problems when you apply a tool to a circumstance it isn't designed for! Use your brain and don't eat your spaghetti with a hammer! Don't blame the hammer when you spill your spaghetti. </p><p></p><p></p><p>-Brad</p><p></p><p>(Spelling edits)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bawylie, post: 7020906, member: 6776133"] I don't think this is a problem with the rules. I think the issue is how you applied the rule to the situation at hand. The reason we have DMs (as opposed to some sort of physics simulator) is to adjudicate the outcomes of in-game decisions. The reason we have rules, traditions, texts, etc., is so that those adjudications are consistent, credible, and do not appear arbitrary. Obviously the rules do not and cannot encompass the totality of possibilities (the rule book that attempted to do so would be preposterous in size and scope). So we must rely on consistent, credible adjudication to resolve ambiguities and weirdo corner cases. However, from time to time, you're gonna get problems when the DM insists on putting the rules ahead of the decisions, particularly when strict application of the rules would result in a weirdo outcome. "Your bro is covered in a swarm of bugs... and your plan is to whack the bugs with your Morningstar?" See, the bugs have an AC and HP and so the DM that puts the rules first says Go Ahead and then you get this weirdo scene where the attacker is swinging at bugs but missing his bro with the accuracy and delicacy of a surgeon. That's just not credible. That's an approach that should fail or even harm the bro. The problem then is that the DM left the decision-making and adjudicating to the rules system instead of positing "just what would be the outcome here?" And making a ruling on the decision that way. Much has been written about dis/associative mechanics, but that sort of thinking largely ignores in totality the DM's job here. These corner cases don't happen in a vacuum. They have in-game context. And ignoring that context in favor of a rules process is sub-optimal, sometimes even Bad DM-ing. It's shirking the job of the ref/judge, which is really, knowing how and when to apply those rules. Tip: it isn't Always in All Circumstances and it also isn't First, Before Any Consideration of Sense and Sensibility. See saelorn's example of how a swim speed eliminates the penalties for wielding certain weapons underwater. On its face, that's a nonsensical rule. But if that swim speed were magically granted by some spell or item, then it's free-moving effects may well apply to attacks with weapons that would normally be useless underwater. Circumstances matter. Judgment is often more important than rules. And rules are not Laws as much as they are guidelines and precedent. "The mechanic is dissociative" is about as insightful as "This hammer makes a terrible fork." Well, yeah! You're gonna have problems when you apply a tool to a circumstance it isn't designed for! Use your brain and don't eat your spaghetti with a hammer! Don't blame the hammer when you spill your spaghetti. -Brad (Spelling edits) [/QUOTE]
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