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When a rule is clear but leads to illogical efffects
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<blockquote data-quote="MNblockhead" data-source="post: 7020935" data-attributes="member: 6796661"><p>I go with RAW, generally, but in situations like this, players have to explain what they are doing. How is the poison delivered. It is more fun that way and gets table buy-in for my rulings. Most of my rulings are consensus based. I may occasionally rule against the group, but it is OUR game, not MY game. </p><p></p><p>I don't know what I've done in my life to deserve it, besides being insufficiently aware of my environment, but I've encountered a number of real-life swarms, including spiders, bees, wasps/hornets, beetles, bugs, and ants. Well, snakes as well, but they were harmless garter snakes and I love snakes and was seeking them out, so that doesn't count. I've never been in a swarm of bats (they would be pretty much harmless IRL anyway), but I've had pet bats and knew people that were bit by them (one while waiting for the train in NYC of all places). Have disturbed small colonies of mice, which can freak you out when some of them run over you (always careful now when servicing the A/C in the spring). Worked at a company that raised tens of thousands of rats, mice, and guinea pigs for medical testing use, and have also have had pet rats and have kept rats and mice as snake food. never been swarmed but have had to deal with groups in the 10s and have been bitten, and I can certainly imagine the horror of being swarmed by rats (as unrealistic as that is). </p><p></p><p>Spiders are the scariest but ants are worst to deal with, worse than bees. With bees, if you run enough you are fine (at least where I live, we don't have the african "killer bees" this far north yet, afaik). F'n ants though, if they get all over you, you need to take off all your clothes and spray down. They are the worst. Saw into the wrong tree or start pulling apart some old wood structures and you can find your self in a world of suck right quick. On the positive side, it helps me run swarms in my game. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>For the poster that said they would not necessarily be crawling ON you. Well, if they small/tiny crawling creatures and are doing damage to you, yes, yes they are crawling on you and in your armor and clothes and that is what makes them horrible and fun to DM. </p><p></p><p>If you want to be realistic, unarmed combat should do more damage to crawling swarms. A shield should be more effective than a sword, mace, etc. </p><p></p><p>Poison. Lets assume the poison is a contact poison that works on the critters. Sure, I'll go with RAW but I would explain it as you are sweeping the weapon over wide swath of creepy crawlies or are rubbing the poison on your clothes and armor (risking poisoning yourself). I think flying swarms should be resistant to poison damage unless it is in powder or aerosol form (again risking poisoning the party). </p><p></p><p>Now that you have me thinking of swarms, I think too many DMs are in-doorsy types that are not making enough use of swarms as opportunities for outdoor encounters. </p><p></p><p>There are real-life swarms you can harass your party with that can be fun. I've never used, and never heard of anyone using tick swarms (deer ticks, wood ticks), though a quick google search does show stats for this--at least for Pathfinder. Ticks are a real danger and they SUCK. You will need to strip naked and go over your body with the help of a friend ensuring that you got them all, especially in your hairy parts. Also, there is a real risk of contracting lyme disease. You also have to carefully go through all your clothes and belongings and are better off boiling it (since your campaign likely doesn't have clothes-dryers---yes, it is the *dryer* NOT the washer that kills them) to be safe. </p><p></p><p>Fun quote:</p><p></p><p>"To these I must add the wood lice [ticks] with which the forests are so pestered that it is impossible to pass through a bush or to sit down, though the place be ever so pleasant, without having a whole swarm of them on your clothes." Pehr Kalm, 18 May 1749. Raccoon [Swedesboro], New Jersey</p><p></p><p>or this:</p><p></p><p>The Tick Encounter Resource Center at the University of Rhode Island <a href="http://www.tickencounter.org/tick_notes/tick_notes_detick_with_duct_tape" target="_blank">recommends the use of duct tape</a> to deal with the results of tick swarms. Yes, duct tape really is good for everything and it is worth ripping out your body hair to conveniently deal with a tick infestation. So, the use of spells and supplies that are sticky should be effective against swarms. The Web spell as an obvious example. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Another fun quote:</p><p></p><p>"We've been receiving a lot of questions about larvae tick encounters. Now's when you may encounter an egg-batch worth of larval stage deer (blacklegged) or Lone Star (seed) ticks. These six-legged larvae hatch from egg masses that can contain 3,000 or more eggs that all hatch at about the same time. That's why people more frequently encounter a tick swarm instead of a single larval tick."</p><p></p><p>Fun stuff.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MNblockhead, post: 7020935, member: 6796661"] I go with RAW, generally, but in situations like this, players have to explain what they are doing. How is the poison delivered. It is more fun that way and gets table buy-in for my rulings. Most of my rulings are consensus based. I may occasionally rule against the group, but it is OUR game, not MY game. I don't know what I've done in my life to deserve it, besides being insufficiently aware of my environment, but I've encountered a number of real-life swarms, including spiders, bees, wasps/hornets, beetles, bugs, and ants. Well, snakes as well, but they were harmless garter snakes and I love snakes and was seeking them out, so that doesn't count. I've never been in a swarm of bats (they would be pretty much harmless IRL anyway), but I've had pet bats and knew people that were bit by them (one while waiting for the train in NYC of all places). Have disturbed small colonies of mice, which can freak you out when some of them run over you (always careful now when servicing the A/C in the spring). Worked at a company that raised tens of thousands of rats, mice, and guinea pigs for medical testing use, and have also have had pet rats and have kept rats and mice as snake food. never been swarmed but have had to deal with groups in the 10s and have been bitten, and I can certainly imagine the horror of being swarmed by rats (as unrealistic as that is). Spiders are the scariest but ants are worst to deal with, worse than bees. With bees, if you run enough you are fine (at least where I live, we don't have the african "killer bees" this far north yet, afaik). F'n ants though, if they get all over you, you need to take off all your clothes and spray down. They are the worst. Saw into the wrong tree or start pulling apart some old wood structures and you can find your self in a world of suck right quick. On the positive side, it helps me run swarms in my game. :-) For the poster that said they would not necessarily be crawling ON you. Well, if they small/tiny crawling creatures and are doing damage to you, yes, yes they are crawling on you and in your armor and clothes and that is what makes them horrible and fun to DM. If you want to be realistic, unarmed combat should do more damage to crawling swarms. A shield should be more effective than a sword, mace, etc. Poison. Lets assume the poison is a contact poison that works on the critters. Sure, I'll go with RAW but I would explain it as you are sweeping the weapon over wide swath of creepy crawlies or are rubbing the poison on your clothes and armor (risking poisoning yourself). I think flying swarms should be resistant to poison damage unless it is in powder or aerosol form (again risking poisoning the party). Now that you have me thinking of swarms, I think too many DMs are in-doorsy types that are not making enough use of swarms as opportunities for outdoor encounters. There are real-life swarms you can harass your party with that can be fun. I've never used, and never heard of anyone using tick swarms (deer ticks, wood ticks), though a quick google search does show stats for this--at least for Pathfinder. Ticks are a real danger and they SUCK. You will need to strip naked and go over your body with the help of a friend ensuring that you got them all, especially in your hairy parts. Also, there is a real risk of contracting lyme disease. You also have to carefully go through all your clothes and belongings and are better off boiling it (since your campaign likely doesn't have clothes-dryers---yes, it is the *dryer* NOT the washer that kills them) to be safe. Fun quote: "To these I must add the wood lice [ticks] with which the forests are so pestered that it is impossible to pass through a bush or to sit down, though the place be ever so pleasant, without having a whole swarm of them on your clothes." Pehr Kalm, 18 May 1749. Raccoon [Swedesboro], New Jersey or this: The Tick Encounter Resource Center at the University of Rhode Island [URL="http://www.tickencounter.org/tick_notes/tick_notes_detick_with_duct_tape"]recommends the use of duct tape[/URL] to deal with the results of tick swarms. Yes, duct tape really is good for everything and it is worth ripping out your body hair to conveniently deal with a tick infestation. So, the use of spells and supplies that are sticky should be effective against swarms. The Web spell as an obvious example. Another fun quote: "We've been receiving a lot of questions about larvae tick encounters. Now's when you may encounter an egg-batch worth of larval stage deer (blacklegged) or Lone Star (seed) ticks. These six-legged larvae hatch from egg masses that can contain 3,000 or more eggs that all hatch at about the same time. That's why people more frequently encounter a tick swarm instead of a single larval tick." Fun stuff. [/QUOTE]
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