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Message: <blockquote data-quote="stevelabny" data-source="post: 2722157" data-attributes="member: 9298">i scanned the thread to make sure there wasnt any Feast for Crows spoiers, as I havent read the book yet.  (So hopefully, thats still new enough to go behind spoiler tags). I will feel free to talk about the deaths already presented by KB though. (In Buffy and the first three ASOIAF books)I agree with the general idea that the reason why Joss and George RR Martin are so good is because they do bad things to their characters. Joss said it best "I don't give the fans what they want, I give them what they NEED."KB, you say that you can deal with Tara, but have a problem with the Red Wedding.I've seen many Buffy fans completely lose all reason when it comes to Tara.So I think this might have to do with just how much people like certain characters. I think people don't mind seeing characters that they deem secondary get killed off, but if one of their favorites bites it, suddenly they find a problem with it, sometimes even subconciously.My question to you is WHY do you feel that the Red Wedding was author-forced but Tara's death wasn't ? Were you a big fan of Rob and Catelyn? How did you feel about Tara? If you got through Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings, what was so different about the Red Wedding that broke the disbelief for you?In my own case, I thought some of the other deaths in ASOIAF were a bit sudden (Renly for one, Joff for another) as I thought both characters had potential, BUT  I had already accepted that anybody could die at anytime. I've already accepted that most of my favorites in the series will die, and that the one character I despise might very well be the sole survivor. As long as the series stays well written, I can deal.Firefly / Serenity is a perfect case for me of a character I like getting a perfect death scene.  I always hope all my favorite fictional characters have a good death.  For fictional characters, there is nothing better for than a good death. Years ago, when I hated Wonder Man's death in Force Works #1, and it completely soured me to that book. Of course, we had JUST learned that Wonder Man was immortal, and Force Works was a brand new incarnation of Avengers West coast (so if the writers didn't want him there, they had plenty of other ways to write him out) so the whole idea seemed forced. (ha) Even knowing that Wonder Man would definitely return since he was "immortal', the idea still ticked me off.  I'd like to think that such a ridiculous death of a character who wasn't one of my favorites would have bothered me just as much, but there's no way to know. (But I also think comics are a slightly different landscape, since they are a shared playground, and I often feel a writer is being irresponisble to the shared universe he's playing in.)When it comes to Buffy or Serenity or ASOIAF or any other tv show/ book / movie with ONE person's vision leading the way, i can't remember ever being quite so upset. Sure sometimes I would have gone another route, but I've never been so upset that I quit something over a character death. The worst I can remember was when I felt that Riley was unceremoniously written out of Buffy due to rebound-boyfriend-negative-fan-reaction.  I thought it was unfair, I thought it was done to cater to the audience, I thought it was handled poorly, and I still continued watching and loving the show.</blockquote>

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