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<blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 9467284" data-attributes="member: 6677017">Ranger was orginally--and for quite a long time--squarely in the full warrior category. There was no hint of seeing them as in any sort of thief/rogue combat role. This was true least from 1e through 3.0e D&amp;D.In 3.5e rangers got their hp reduced from the warrior's d10s to d8s (but rogues and bards were still rocking d6s then) and got their number of skill points increased and armor proficiencies reduced. They did however keep the warrior level number and efficacy of atracks.Is 3.5e where it started?In 4e they were defined as Martial Strikers along with rogues. Is that where it started?Did it start in a non-D&amp;D source?It's something I always wonder about. And even though it isn't accurate for 5e, where they have been back to their roots as full warriors since 2014, people still have the idea in their minds. WotC even made it official in the 2024 PHB by listing them as an alternate option for the rogue. There is no justification for that, and it is misleading, though perhaps irrelevant in context of 5e rogues. I can't help but see the likely reason it was listed there deriving mostly from the &quot;ranger as wilderness rogue&quot; concept.So, someone please help set the record straight. When and where did this idea get started?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sword of Spirit, post: 9467284, member: 6677017"] Ranger was orginally--and for quite a long time--squarely in the full warrior category. There was no hint of seeing them as in any sort of thief/rogue combat role. This was true least from 1e through 3.0e D&D. In 3.5e rangers got their hp reduced from the warrior's d10s to d8s (but rogues and bards were still rocking d6s then) and got their number of skill points increased and armor proficiencies reduced. They did however keep the warrior level number and efficacy of atracks. Is 3.5e where it started? In 4e they were defined as Martial Strikers along with rogues. Is that where it started? Did it start in a non-D&D source? It's something I always wonder about. And even though it isn't accurate for 5e, where they have been back to their roots as full warriors since 2014, people still have the idea in their minds. WotC even made it official in the 2024 PHB by listing them as an alternate option for the rogue. There is no justification for that, and it is misleading, though perhaps irrelevant in context of 5e rogues. I can't help but see the likely reason it was listed there deriving mostly from the "ranger as wilderness rogue" concept. So, someone please help set the record straight. When and where did this idea get started? [/QUOTE]

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