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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9467573" data-attributes="member: 6684958">The Ranger was always intented to be a Wilderness Rogue.&nbsp; Though this was not always supported by rules.The before 3E &quot;Rogue&quot; was the Thief.&nbsp; They were very much primarily dungeon hunting treasure seekers.&nbsp; A HUGE number of Thieves would never in get into any combat much.&nbsp; Sure, they might fight from time to time: but they would just about never rush into front line combat to strike at foes.&nbsp; In before 3E games, when combat happened, very often, the player of a thief character would just....sit there and do nothing.&nbsp; So, yes, let that sink in : during combat they often did nothing.Now, with the right DM, very often a Thief would do all sorts of other activities except fighting during combat.&nbsp; A thief might close and spike a door closed so more goblins could not get into the main room, for example.&nbsp; And the thief did have a &quot;maybe once a game&quot; ability where they could get behind a foe and Backstab!Now the Thief did translate well into Urban Adventures.&nbsp; There were locked doors in dungeons and there were locked doors in cities.&nbsp; But they were a bit of a bad fit in the Wilderness.So the Ranger was added as the Wilderness Warrior/Wilderness Rogue.No.&nbsp; It was 2E.&nbsp; There was a lot of variants in the 2E rules.But 3E was the big turning point where the Rogue and Ranger both became awesome first line strikers as part of the games focus on combat only.&nbsp; The basic idea was for every player to be fulling playing their character in ever single combat.3E was also the big skill shift.&nbsp; Before 3E, characters could just do actions in the game by role playing.&nbsp; 3E firmly started the idea of rolling for everything using the rules.&nbsp; And.........well, 3E D&amp;D is a combat game with some random dungeon exploring rules.&nbsp; There is no huge non combat rules set of hundreds of pages.&nbsp; This left DMs to just make up stuff on their own.&nbsp; Except most DMs and most players, even more so new ones, wanted a more heavy rules for everything game play.&nbsp; And it was not there.&nbsp; So, for many games, they just dropped anything except Combat.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9467573, member: 6684958"] The Ranger was always intented to be a Wilderness Rogue. Though this was not always supported by rules. The before 3E "Rogue" was the Thief. They were very much primarily dungeon hunting treasure seekers. A HUGE number of Thieves would never in get into any combat much. Sure, they might fight from time to time: but they would just about never rush into front line combat to strike at foes. In before 3E games, when combat happened, very often, the player of a thief character would just....sit there and do nothing. So, yes, let that sink in : during combat they often did nothing. Now, with the right DM, very often a Thief would do all sorts of other activities except fighting during combat. A thief might close and spike a door closed so more goblins could not get into the main room, for example. And the thief did have a "maybe once a game" ability where they could get behind a foe and Backstab! Now the Thief did translate well into Urban Adventures. There were locked doors in dungeons and there were locked doors in cities. But they were a bit of a bad fit in the Wilderness. So the Ranger was added as the Wilderness Warrior/Wilderness Rogue. No. It was 2E. There was a lot of variants in the 2E rules. But 3E was the big turning point where the Rogue and Ranger both became awesome first line strikers as part of the games focus on combat only. The basic idea was for every player to be fulling playing their character in ever single combat. 3E was also the big skill shift. Before 3E, characters could just do actions in the game by role playing. 3E firmly started the idea of rolling for everything using the rules. And.........well, 3E D&D is a combat game with some random dungeon exploring rules. There is no huge non combat rules set of hundreds of pages. This left DMs to just make up stuff on their own. Except most DMs and most players, even more so new ones, wanted a more heavy rules for everything game play. And it was not there. So, for many games, they just dropped anything except Combat. [/QUOTE]

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