Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 5927148" data-attributes="member: 6669384">Yes and no.If you roll a separate Hide/Move Silent for each bandit, each bandit has a chance to fail, and if one fails they've all failed, since the noisy/clumsy one will give the group away.What I usually do is roll once for the ambush group, and apply the modifier of the worst one in the group.  I'll frequently give them a circumstance bonus if they know the area well.  They have, in theory, been at this for a while and already know the good hiding spots.I'll roll once for the PCs, using the observation modifiers of the best of the PCs.  If someone is scouting, I use their bonus straight, or the rest of the party's bonus at -5 for being distracted.  You can't be on full alert 24 hours a day, after all.Now in the panther encounter described, the PC type must be rolling nuclear numbers, since his Listen is only +2, yet he keeps rolling in the low 20s.Per the odds, encounter distance should be zero and the Panther should get a Surprise round most of the time.  It is, after all, what he does for a living. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />In practice you typically hear an opponent first in an underground or thick underbrush situation.  That alerts you to try and Spot, removing that -5 "distracted" modifier.To the original question:  When are dice rolls called for?A Hide or Move Silent check is called for any time someone intentionally tries to hide or move silently.A Spot or Listen check is called for as soon as the DM thinks that an encounter is possible.  The book gives a guideline (mentioned earlier) but the DM has the final word.  The roll is made once for the encounter, to reflect the general level of attentiveness.  The result is compared to the Hide/Move Silent check, and you do a little math with the modifiers to see how close the pair get before one spots the other.So really, two dice rolls per side (one for Hide and one for Move Silent on the ambusher's side, and one for Spot and one for Listen on the traveler's side. )<EDIT>It occurs to me that if I was running an ambush, I'd post my people in an area where they have 100% concealment from the trail and have them lay still.  Chance of being Spotted or Listened in on is zero.  Now I'll have a scout in a good position to see the trail, but at a distance.  When the PC's hit the ambush point, the spotter signals, the men under cover leap out and kabang!  The party's Spot is penalized by the distance as well as the practiced skill of the scout, and the bandits aren't in any way penalized for having people who aren't any good at hiding. </EDIT></blockquote>

Verification