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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5939859" data-attributes="member: 92305">After reading the general rules on skill use closely and the descriptions of Move Silently, Listen, Hide, and Spot specifically--then, checking out how these skills are used in beginning official adventures (where the GM is being taught the game with advice from the adventure author) and tangental use like the rules for tailing a character in Complete Adventurer, I'm thinking that the correct way to use the stealth use....what was intended...is to make a roll once per game round. But, the 3.5 game isn't always played in six second combat rounds. If using the Local Scale, then checks are made each minute. If the party is traveling long distance, then they're probably using the One Day or One Hour scale, which means one check each day or per hour is appropriate. Distance plays a part, too. As the encounter distance approaches, say, 100 feet or so, combat rounds should probably be used--which means sneaking up on someone after tailing takes a few checks. Three or more. Plus, its easy to forget modifiers. For example, if using the One Hour scale, the PCs may not be watchful of someone tracking them. That's probably a distraction -5 penalty to their Spots. And, for the one trying to sneak up on them, he's got move penalties. Many times, he'll be spotted unless he's got a lot of bonus in concealment or flat out cover. Although it doesn't say it anywhere, it seems logical, too, to default to Spot/Hide checks and not roll a Listen/Move Silent check. Use the Listen/Move Silent checks when vision is hampered (like at night when the PCs can't see too far past their camp fire....or in a dungeon setting where vision is blocked by structures).     EDIT: ADDRESSING THE EXAMPLE IN THE OP -- I think the way to handle that scenario, by the rules, is to run it something like this...   1. Initial Encounter.  Roll Panther's Spot vs. PC's Hide. If the PC's are just walking together through the woods, not taking a lot of precautions to be stealthy, then this means a penalty to their Hide. Use the Panther's Spot to determine the distance at which the Panther notices the PC's. We know from the Envrionment Stealth toss mentioned in the OP that max sight range in this terrain is 100 feet. There's lots of trees and hills and rocks blocking line of sight. The GM determines that the panther is sitting on a rock when the PCs come close. Does the panther Spot the PC? d20 +6 Spot +0 PC Size = 12. PC's Hide: d20 +5 Hide -5 Move Penalty -2 Panther's Advantage +0 Panther Size = 10.   Does the PC see the panther? d20 +6 Spot +0 Panther Size = 9. Panther's Hide: d20 +8 Hide +2 panther's advantage +0 PC Size = 28.    This means that the panther spotted the PC just 20 feet away, and the PC hasn't seen the panther. At this close range, I'd consider using the Listen/Move Silent checks, too, but the panther isn't moving. There's nothing for the PC to hear.   2. This is where the encounter can be started, with the panther getting a surprise round (which, all he can do, is stand up from his seated position on the rock--that's an action), roll initiative, then play out the combat encounter. Alternatively, the panther can choose to stalk the PC, but at this range, he's got to roll every combat round--which means the PC will see him if he takes too long. Listen/Move Silently checks could be used, too--but that's a lot for the GM to do, especially behind a screen, not letting the PC know that there's a panther just 20 feet away. Most likely, on the surprise round, I'd have the panther stand up and growl. Roll nish. Combat rounds. That's the easiest.   3.  It probably helps to pre-roll the PC's Spot, Listen, Move Silently, and Hide passive checks.  Use them until the player wants to re-roll one of them (he should not know his passive check--but, he can call for a re-throw).  That will give the GM static numbers to roll against with the beastie.</blockquote>

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