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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 7217938" data-attributes="member: 2525">I listened to the podcast when it came out and commented on it at the time. He begins by emphasizing about as emphatically as he can that it's a DM call based on the circumstances and there is not a hard and fast rule like you just outlined (which is what I've been saying - "unless there are special circumstances"). Next, he's mostly talking about out of combat uses and the passive perception checks to counter your active hide check, which isn't applicable to what we're talking about in this topic. Next he says you keep your hide check UNTIL YOU ARE DISCOVERED. And what is one way you are discovered? Something sees or hears you! He even says, "you've run out of hiding" leads to discovery. To remain hidden, "make sure people can't see you clearly" is one condition. But people can see you clearly if you have a person between you and them under the normal rules, unless you have the skulker feat or are a lightfoot halfling. To prove it, ask yourself this. If you have an ally in front of you, and foes in front of the ally, would you even bother to ask your DM if you can clearly see the foe? Of course not - you CAN see your foe, even with an ally between you and the foe. The foe might gain the benefit of some cover, but cover isn't an issue of you being able to clearly see the target, it's more a factor of reducing your chances of being able to hit the target with a ranged shot (because there is less of the foe to hit). He then specifies fog can allow you to remain hidden, but that's the type of obscured terrain which is the normal rule for hiding (unless it's patchy fog). He then specifies heavy foliage, up in the tree tops, or on top of a building, all of which are well in the normal stealth rules. He then says without a special ability, the rogue reveals themselves if they try to stealthily move from behind a barrel to another obstruction 10 feet away, because they come out of hiding as soon as the leave the barrel. He never once says or implies a person between you and a foe is a circumstance which allows you to stay hidden (unless again the DM makes a judgement call otherwise). If you can talk your DM into it at the time, go for it. But I don't think the more hard-and-fast aspects of the hide rules support your claim about a person being between you and the foe being sufficient to maintain your hiding. I think that's in the lightfoot halfling or Skulker feat realm. I think this kind of hiding will fall well into the DM judgement call based on the circumstances aspects of the stealth rules. They'll ask if the foe can hear you regardless of vision, and how big the person is between you and the foe, and how distracted the foe is, and whether the foe knew you hid in that area to begin with, and whether the foe has a good sense of smell, and the lighting and shadows, and all the other factors that go into it. I don't think a PC can automatically assume they will have the opportunity to "remain" hidden when they are dodging behind an ally like that, unless they're a lightfoot halfling or they have the Skulker feat.</blockquote>

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