Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7218160" data-attributes="member: 6795602">I love how as soon as someone mentions an experience that everyone assumes there must be something off about that experience.&nbsp; It's like clockwork.&nbsp; Kind of funny.&nbsp; There was terrain but like I said it was more ruins and forest and such.&nbsp; Campaign wasn't really centered on splunking.&nbsp; Just FYI:&nbsp; there aren't many foes faster than a wood-elf rogue up to 105ft of movement per turn is hard to catch especially when I was not always but typically starting 60+ft away.&nbsp; One was a mage.&nbsp; Not significant damage unless aoe was needed.&nbsp; I can't remember what melee class the other was as this was the first 5e campaign I played in so it was a while ago.&nbsp; I think the DM did stealth vs passive perception.&nbsp; I had like +10 or more in stealth.&nbsp; Most monsters only have around 11-15 PP at those early levels.&nbsp; I typically had to roll at worst a 5 or higher to beat their perception.&nbsp; Like I said it was basically advantage whenever I wanted it.&nbsp; Of course it would occasionly fail but it was rare.&nbsp; I didn't include the GWF rerolling dice because (A) I didn't feel like writing decimals and (B) enough players take defense over the GW fighting style that I no longer just assume it anymore.&nbsp; Also if you want to get that nitpicky look at level 7 or 9 instead of 5 (the fighters best level for comparison).&nbsp; In other words I was being kind to the fighter.&nbsp; Yes he has action surge and battlemaster dice but I didn't try to force him to compete with the levels of rogue where the rogue really pulls ahead.&nbsp; If you don't feel that's a fair trade we can look at a more detailed comparison from levels 3 to 9 or something.&nbsp; It's likely going to be less kind to the fighter though.&nbsp; Only thing that changes is adding in GWM or SS which is something I've been clear about since forever ago.&nbsp; The numbers I showed had the rogue winning pretty handily at least until Battlemaster and Action surge are added in.&nbsp; Looking at 50% chance to hit and the rogue having advantage it's like 16.125 DPR vs 12.33 DPR (With your rerolls factored in).&nbsp; Now, adding in battle master dice and action surge gets the fighter close in daily DPR.&nbsp; He may even overtake the advantage rogue a little then.&nbsp; Though adding in crits helps the rogue a little more.&nbsp; So without computing every detail what we have learned is that the advantage rogue stays up with the fighter in terms of DPR even when all the fighters damage features are accounted for.&nbsp; The rogue gets expertise in useful skills and can go arcane trickster for nice utility spells and more skills overall.&nbsp; The fighter gets no out of combat advantage.&nbsp; So basically what we are saying is that the advantage rogue is flat out better than the fighter because they do equal damage but the rogue has a lot more out of combat utility.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 7218160, member: 6795602"] I love how as soon as someone mentions an experience that everyone assumes there must be something off about that experience. It's like clockwork. Kind of funny. There was terrain but like I said it was more ruins and forest and such. Campaign wasn't really centered on splunking. Just FYI: there aren't many foes faster than a wood-elf rogue up to 105ft of movement per turn is hard to catch especially when I was not always but typically starting 60+ft away. One was a mage. Not significant damage unless aoe was needed. I can't remember what melee class the other was as this was the first 5e campaign I played in so it was a while ago. I think the DM did stealth vs passive perception. I had like +10 or more in stealth. Most monsters only have around 11-15 PP at those early levels. I typically had to roll at worst a 5 or higher to beat their perception. Like I said it was basically advantage whenever I wanted it. Of course it would occasionly fail but it was rare. I didn't include the GWF rerolling dice because (A) I didn't feel like writing decimals and (B) enough players take defense over the GW fighting style that I no longer just assume it anymore. Also if you want to get that nitpicky look at level 7 or 9 instead of 5 (the fighters best level for comparison). In other words I was being kind to the fighter. Yes he has action surge and battlemaster dice but I didn't try to force him to compete with the levels of rogue where the rogue really pulls ahead. If you don't feel that's a fair trade we can look at a more detailed comparison from levels 3 to 9 or something. It's likely going to be less kind to the fighter though. Only thing that changes is adding in GWM or SS which is something I've been clear about since forever ago. The numbers I showed had the rogue winning pretty handily at least until Battlemaster and Action surge are added in. Looking at 50% chance to hit and the rogue having advantage it's like 16.125 DPR vs 12.33 DPR (With your rerolls factored in). Now, adding in battle master dice and action surge gets the fighter close in daily DPR. He may even overtake the advantage rogue a little then. Though adding in crits helps the rogue a little more. So without computing every detail what we have learned is that the advantage rogue stays up with the fighter in terms of DPR even when all the fighters damage features are accounted for. The rogue gets expertise in useful skills and can go arcane trickster for nice utility spells and more skills overall. The fighter gets no out of combat advantage. So basically what we are saying is that the advantage rogue is flat out better than the fighter because they do equal damage but the rogue has a lot more out of combat utility. [/QUOTE]

Verification