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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 7218941" data-attributes="member: 37579">If it's the "standard" disclaimer can you give an example of another place it appears?If not, then it's not really standard is it? Then it must exist for a reason.Kinda. That pretty much is the point. But it's more than just setting and location. The number and position of people hiding is a factor. How alert they are. The DM is given the latitude to allow people to hide when the rules would otherwise say they can't (out in the open without cover) and deny the ability to hide when the rules would otherwise say they can (behind a barrel, after attacking, in an otherwise empty room). The hiding rules are pretty much identical to the hiding rules from 4th edition, which nobody complained about.The differences are twofold:1) The Action. Hiding was pretty much automatic in 4e. 2) Hard rules. There were clear bulletpoints on when you could hide. I.e. when behind cover. 3) Minis. The game pretty much assumed miniatures, so the player could always tell if cover existed. The problem with the 4e rule was that it led to the absurd (rogues sniping and then becoming "hidden" by dropping out of sight for six seconds) and didn't permit cool actions (the rogue quietly slipping across the room to table where guards are playing poker, and attempting to pickpocket a key ring). And they don't really work in theatre of the mind...The game and most DMs want you to do the latter, but the rules of 4e, and Pathfinder and 3e never really let you because the second you ended your turn out of cover all enemies automatically noticed you.</blockquote>

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