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"when circumstances are appropriate for hiding"
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<blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 7220363" data-attributes="member: 6787503"><p>No. I'm saying you don't get to decide for us what "standard 5e" is, and you don't get to tell us we aren't playing "the real D&D" if we don't play according to your personal understanding of the rules, which in my opinion is deeply flawed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It isn't pedantic because it bears directly on this particular exchange we're having. Let me recount for you, since you seem to have forgotten. You said it's possible to sneak past unalert creatures while in the open as long as you beat their passive Perception, as if being unalert somehow makes you blind. In response, I said I require you to be heavily obscured or concealed to sneak past unalert creatures, the same as any other attempt to escape notice, but that because the creature is not alert, I don't consult its passive Perception and the attempt auto-succeeds. You responded that conscious creatures' passive Perception is always on even when not alert. I replied no, that isn't true. If a creature's attention is otherwise occupied with a task like tracking or foraging, its passive score is not in effect when it comes to noticing hidden/sneaking/stealthy threats. The game (and Jeremy Crawford) describes passive Perception in terms of "always on" with reference to combat, because creatures are assumed to be alert in combat, the exception being DM-ruled distraction. Also to make it clear you don't have to take the Search action to be alert in combat. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What's your evidence? You seem to be speaking on behalf of "standard 5e" again. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But I don't think you've named one application of the Stealth skill that isn't an attempt to avoid notice. If that isn't hiding, I don't know what is. If you see a distinction between hiding and sneaking being made in the rules, however, I'd be very interested in having you point it out to me. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What clarifications does it contradict? I admit this is my houserule, but it isn't in contradiction to anything of which I'm aware. It's meant to preserve the situation presented in the rules for attacking from hiding that when you are hidden, your location is unknown. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>At the risk of being accused of pedantry again, I'm going to repeat what I explained up-thread. Hiding is an action. Stealth is a skill. They are not synonyms in my opinion. The terms I would say are mechanically synonymous are hiding and sneaking. If you think the rule-book makes a distinction between the two, I would encourage you to point out where you're reading that. By the way, all the terms I listed as synonyms for hiding I found in one book, the PHB. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Up-thread you said this was true of creatures that are not alert. Now it seems you allow sneaking past alert creatures while in the open as well. If this is correct, and given the extra requirement of not being clearly seen that hiding entails, why does anyone try to hide in your games when it's much easier to avoid notice by sneaking in the open?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hriston, post: 7220363, member: 6787503"] No. I'm saying you don't get to decide for us what "standard 5e" is, and you don't get to tell us we aren't playing "the real D&D" if we don't play according to your personal understanding of the rules, which in my opinion is deeply flawed. It isn't pedantic because it bears directly on this particular exchange we're having. Let me recount for you, since you seem to have forgotten. You said it's possible to sneak past unalert creatures while in the open as long as you beat their passive Perception, as if being unalert somehow makes you blind. In response, I said I require you to be heavily obscured or concealed to sneak past unalert creatures, the same as any other attempt to escape notice, but that because the creature is not alert, I don't consult its passive Perception and the attempt auto-succeeds. You responded that conscious creatures' passive Perception is always on even when not alert. I replied no, that isn't true. If a creature's attention is otherwise occupied with a task like tracking or foraging, its passive score is not in effect when it comes to noticing hidden/sneaking/stealthy threats. The game (and Jeremy Crawford) describes passive Perception in terms of "always on" with reference to combat, because creatures are assumed to be alert in combat, the exception being DM-ruled distraction. Also to make it clear you don't have to take the Search action to be alert in combat. What's your evidence? You seem to be speaking on behalf of "standard 5e" again. But I don't think you've named one application of the Stealth skill that isn't an attempt to avoid notice. If that isn't hiding, I don't know what is. If you see a distinction between hiding and sneaking being made in the rules, however, I'd be very interested in having you point it out to me. What clarifications does it contradict? I admit this is my houserule, but it isn't in contradiction to anything of which I'm aware. It's meant to preserve the situation presented in the rules for attacking from hiding that when you are hidden, your location is unknown. At the risk of being accused of pedantry again, I'm going to repeat what I explained up-thread. Hiding is an action. Stealth is a skill. They are not synonyms in my opinion. The terms I would say are mechanically synonymous are hiding and sneaking. If you think the rule-book makes a distinction between the two, I would encourage you to point out where you're reading that. By the way, all the terms I listed as synonyms for hiding I found in one book, the PHB. Up-thread you said this was true of creatures that are not alert. Now it seems you allow sneaking past alert creatures while in the open as well. If this is correct, and given the extra requirement of not being clearly seen that hiding entails, why does anyone try to hide in your games when it's much easier to avoid notice by sneaking in the open? [/QUOTE]
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