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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 7221709" data-attributes="member: 6787503">I find this approach intriguing and would like to ask a few clarifying questions if I may. I assume that when you consider it certain that a creature will be noticed, it's because circumstances are such that either there is no barrier to sight available or, as you say, it's so quiet that even the heartbeat and light breathing of a creature would give its position away. I admit that I've never had the latter scenario come up in one of my games, but I don't usually pay close attention to ambient noise levels. Also, I'm unclear on whether you would consider a lightly obscured area as providing a sufficient enough barrier to disqualify it from the former. If you do, how do you adjudicate the wood elf hiding feature and the Skulker feat?Likewise, I also assume that when you consider it certain that a creature won't be noticed, it's because circumstances block both vision and hearing entirely (e.g. a roaring waterfall inside a dark cave). In my games, such conditions prevail wherever a heavily obscured area exists outside of audible range, but I do allow creatures to hide in those places in anticipation of an approaching enemy and let the check total stand until such a time as it's contested, i.e. when the enemy comes within hearing range, which may be before or after they enter the range of any potential surprise attacks. Is that basically how you would handle it?Remaining in your "middle ground" are circumstances in which sight is blocked entirely and hearing is possible but not guaranteed (my usual condition for hiding), or in which hearing is blocked entirely and sight is possible but not guaranteed, or in which both sight and hearing are possible but not guaranteed. Personally, I generally run hearing as possible but not guaranteed whenever someone is trying to hide/be stealthy, but I don't do this with respect to sight. How do you run sight this way without stepping on the toes of characters that have the above-mentioned wood elf hiding feature and Skulker feat?</blockquote>

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