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<blockquote data-quote="Thasmodious" data-source="post: 4522402" data-attributes="member: 63272">But that's all on you.&nbsp; Not the game.&nbsp; D&amp;D hasn't ever made players play above the mechanics, only encouraged it.&nbsp; 4e goes a long way to encouraging it with the flavor text for powers and abilities, to help players visualize what they are doing.&nbsp; Did you play 3e like this:Fighter: Uh, my turn?&nbsp; Okay, I move zig zagged like this so I don't provoke 1-2-1 and attack.&nbsp; 26 that hit?&nbsp; 16 damage.&nbsp; Done.Then 4e will likely play for you just like 3e did.&nbsp; On the other hand, if your group puts narration ahead of the dice, the game is no more mechanical than any other.&nbsp; Choosing to use magic missile in 4e is no different than in 3e, its a matter of description.&nbsp; &quot;I cast magic missile, hit 20, 8 damage&quot; is the same in either edition and its a player position not a system one.&nbsp; Same thing with &quot;My fighter pushes him 1 square&quot; as opposed to &quot;My onslaught drives him back towards the edge of the cliff&quot;.&nbsp; For me, 4e plays no differently than any other edition.Each time the holder of the D&amp;D brand releases a new edition or version, some people in their &quot;target audience&quot; choose to get off the train.&nbsp; It's happened at every edition of the game and will happen with 5e.&nbsp; The last two editions have had the pervasiveness of the internet to give voice to the small group that gets off the train and many of them choose to rage, and rage, and rage until they've dealt with the anger stage of grief for a decision they made.&nbsp; To each their own.&nbsp; That decision is not based on some objective fault with the new version, but on the highly subjective snap judgments of the person.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thasmodious, post: 4522402, member: 63272"] But that's all on you. Not the game. D&D hasn't ever made players play above the mechanics, only encouraged it. 4e goes a long way to encouraging it with the flavor text for powers and abilities, to help players visualize what they are doing. Did you play 3e like this: Fighter: Uh, my turn? Okay, I move zig zagged like this so I don't provoke 1-2-1 and attack. 26 that hit? 16 damage. Done. Then 4e will likely play for you just like 3e did. On the other hand, if your group puts narration ahead of the dice, the game is no more mechanical than any other. Choosing to use magic missile in 4e is no different than in 3e, its a matter of description. "I cast magic missile, hit 20, 8 damage" is the same in either edition and its a player position not a system one. Same thing with "My fighter pushes him 1 square" as opposed to "My onslaught drives him back towards the edge of the cliff". For me, 4e plays no differently than any other edition. Each time the holder of the D&D brand releases a new edition or version, some people in their "target audience" choose to get off the train. It's happened at every edition of the game and will happen with 5e. The last two editions have had the pervasiveness of the internet to give voice to the small group that gets off the train and many of them choose to rage, and rage, and rage until they've dealt with the anger stage of grief for a decision they made. To each their own. That decision is not based on some objective fault with the new version, but on the highly subjective snap judgments of the person. [/QUOTE]

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