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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SlyFlourish" data-source="post: 4523190" data-attributes="member: 54840">Straw Men and Actions TakenSo I'm still reading from a lot of people who are disappointed in 4e for one reason or another. A lot of these post that they never either purchased the books or played a game of 4e. First, its hard to believe in people who say the system is totally flawed who haven't at least tried it out. They don't have to if they don't want to, but their judgement matters little. I can't judge how good or bad Mutants and Masterminds is without actually seeing how it runs at the table.I also see a lot of straw-man arguments. It's too WoW like. It's just a tabletop mini game. It's a video game now. It's D&D Easy-Mode. These statements have no use at all for 4e is clearly none of these things. If it was too WoW like, I'd have to be playing it on my computer (Frankly, I wish I could).Like any RPG, 4e is what you make of it. Want a story-focused or character-focused game? Steer it that way. Steer your players that way. Skip minis and tiles completely and do everything vocally. As long as your players and you can all accept that things will be played a little looser for cinematic reasons, I see no reason why this can't work.I think its definitely safe to say that 4e has a lot more rigidity in combat with both movement and placement than previous versions have. There is no doubt that it was influenced by the minis game. It's also interesting to see that D&D formed from Chainmail, a tabletop strategy game and now seems to be moving back in that direction. However, there's a lot of roleplay in 4e as well. The system for skill challenges is one. I ran my first encounter in 4e in my living room with no figures and no table. It was just conversation and skill checks. It defined the whole rest of our adventure.This isn't all to defend 4e or not, although I realize I'm steering that way. The point is, we can poke 4e in the eye all we want but it's here now. Wizards isn't about to switch back to 3.5 (or 2nd or 1st). They're going to be pumping out the books and the new minis lines. Other publishers will soon put out more 4e material. You don't have to buy it. There are dozens of systems out there to play. Sure, its hard to find a group for some of them, but all you need is a handful of people.Whether you love or hate 4e, you need to decide what you're going to do about it. Just complaining for the sake of complaining serves little purpose.Worse, it can hurt the hobby overall. When I read that someone wanted to run at 4e game at their FLGS but was ridiculed into leaving by old timers who decided they hated 4e and wanted no one around them playing it - that really hurts our hobby.A lot of people find 4e to be a lot of fun. I know I do. I'm a lot happier with character growth and combat in 4e than I was with 3.5. I know there are a lot of people who feel the opposite. They like the system they had. There's no reason we all can't enjoy the games we enjoy without having to stretch out the other and stick it full of needles.Can't we all just get along?</blockquote>

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