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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4523312" data-attributes="member: 22779">Ycore Rixle - you are mixing a few editions together there, but, I see your point.However, there's absolutely nothing in 4e that prevents you from having any of that.&nbsp; Yes, it is not presented in the core books, that's true.&nbsp; But, it can be done and done fairly easily.The problem with your point is that you mix editions together and claim all this massive support.&nbsp; A page on gems in the DMG is not massive support and the fact that it appears only in one editions DMG and no other pretty much speaks to how important it was to gamers or how much it got used at the table.But, where I think the problem is is in the terminology.&nbsp; To me, an &quot;exploration game&quot; is one where you start in the bottom right corner of the map and go forth and see the world.&nbsp; Well, all that stuff about what's in that world is the DM's job to create.&nbsp; The rules are simply there to resolve events.&nbsp; Nothing more.&nbsp; When the results of a given action matter and are in question, that's where the rules should step in.&nbsp; All that extra stuff that was in the DMG or whatever book, was just so much wasted space as far as I was concerned.You bring up the gems for example.&nbsp; How many people actually used that?&nbsp; How many people actually use the rules for getting lost?&nbsp; How many people actually rolled on the random harlot table?I'm going to take a stab and say very few.&nbsp; If it was lots, you'd see it still in use.I've been harping on this for a while, but, to me, the best rules set is the one that you use and use often.&nbsp; If it almost never comes up, do you really need rules for it?Anyway, I've gotten a bit off topic.&nbsp; My basic point is, for my definition of &quot;exploration game&quot; which is traveling in character into an unknown area and finding out what's there, I don't see how 4e is any different than any other edition.&nbsp; Heck, I look at the World's Largest Dungeon, which I did run and realize that it would work considerably better using 4e rules.&nbsp; That's about as &quot;exploration game&quot; as it gets.&nbsp; 20 3e levels of nothing but exploring the unknown.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 4523312, member: 22779"] Ycore Rixle - you are mixing a few editions together there, but, I see your point. However, there's absolutely nothing in 4e that prevents you from having any of that. Yes, it is not presented in the core books, that's true. But, it can be done and done fairly easily. The problem with your point is that you mix editions together and claim all this massive support. A page on gems in the DMG is not massive support and the fact that it appears only in one editions DMG and no other pretty much speaks to how important it was to gamers or how much it got used at the table. But, where I think the problem is is in the terminology. To me, an "exploration game" is one where you start in the bottom right corner of the map and go forth and see the world. Well, all that stuff about what's in that world is the DM's job to create. The rules are simply there to resolve events. Nothing more. When the results of a given action matter and are in question, that's where the rules should step in. All that extra stuff that was in the DMG or whatever book, was just so much wasted space as far as I was concerned. You bring up the gems for example. How many people actually used that? How many people actually use the rules for getting lost? How many people actually rolled on the random harlot table? I'm going to take a stab and say very few. If it was lots, you'd see it still in use. I've been harping on this for a while, but, to me, the best rules set is the one that you use and use often. If it almost never comes up, do you really need rules for it? Anyway, I've gotten a bit off topic. My basic point is, for my definition of "exploration game" which is traveling in character into an unknown area and finding out what's there, I don't see how 4e is any different than any other edition. Heck, I look at the World's Largest Dungeon, which I did run and realize that it would work considerably better using 4e rules. That's about as "exploration game" as it gets. 20 3e levels of nothing but exploring the unknown. [/QUOTE]

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