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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4523354" data-attributes="member: 2067">No one is saying that 4e is preventative, that it's impossible to have. People are saying that the rules don't support it as much out of the box as they once did. The thing no one is saying would be hyperbolic panic that doesn't hold up under scrutiny, and could probably be attributed to &quot;NNNG! 4e BAAAAD!&quot;The thing that people are saying has a good chunk of evidence to support it.#1: Reduction of resource management to favor per-encounter balancing#2: Lack of things to &quot;discover&quot; (monster fluff and gem types and whatnot)#3: Same-ness in dungeon exploration roles (anyone can use rituals, everyone fights well, anyone trained in Persuasion makes a good &quot;face,&quot; Healing Surges obliterate the need for long-term healing, anyone can find traps, traps pose a combat threat not a &quot;gotcha&quot; threat)#4: Greater ambiguity about hit points (the old argument that if hps are abstract, why is the only thing that reduces them &quot;hits&quot; that would inflict physical damage?)These problems, for instance, were much smaller (if they existed at all) in earlier editions than they are here. These problems help facilitate a game that is based around combat mostly because that is what the 4e rules are based around, mostly. They are at their best when you're shuffling little pieces of plastic around a mat. Everything else seems to be a secondary consideration. WLD being a &quot;discovery&quot; game is pretty weak, too. It certainly has that aspect, but WLD is a dungeon grind, and that means that it wants you to get in a lot of fights.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4523354, member: 2067"] No one is saying that 4e is preventative, that it's impossible to have. People are saying that the rules don't support it as much out of the box as they once did. The thing no one is saying would be hyperbolic panic that doesn't hold up under scrutiny, and could probably be attributed to "NNNG! 4e BAAAAD!" The thing that people [B]are[/B] saying has a good chunk of evidence to support it. #1: Reduction of resource management to favor per-encounter balancing #2: Lack of things to "discover" (monster fluff and gem types and whatnot) #3: Same-ness in dungeon exploration roles (anyone can use rituals, everyone fights well, anyone trained in Persuasion makes a good "face," Healing Surges obliterate the need for long-term healing, anyone can find traps, traps pose a combat threat not a "gotcha" threat) #4: Greater ambiguity about hit points (the old argument that if hps are abstract, why is the only thing that reduces them "hits" that would inflict physical damage?) These problems, for instance, were much smaller (if they existed at all) in earlier editions than they are here. These problems help facilitate a game that is based around combat mostly because [I]that is what the 4e rules are based around, mostly[/I]. They are at their best when you're shuffling little pieces of plastic around a mat. Everything else seems to be a secondary consideration. WLD being a "discovery" game is pretty weak, too. It certainly has that aspect, but WLD is a dungeon grind, and that means that it wants you to get in a lot of fights. [/QUOTE]

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