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<blockquote data-quote="Thasmodious" data-source="post: 4523427" data-attributes="member: 63272">There is no one claiming Graz'zt can't teleport to another plane or thousands of miles away.&nbsp; But that is not a combat ability.&nbsp; The monster stat blocks present combat abilities.&nbsp; Battlefield teleportation is a combat ability.&nbsp; Where some of the disconnect is, is that 4e tells DMs to service the story.&nbsp; If the PCs are having their first confrontation with Graz'zt he's supposed to get away if he doesn't take them out.&nbsp; So he does.&nbsp; The DM doesn't need to be able to show the players a line in the MM that says he can do that.&nbsp; Some do not like this approach, some do, but not understanding it at all is what leads people to think that 4e is a skirmish game.&nbsp; To do so, you are ignoring a good deal of the DMG, wherein running campaigns, building stories, and the like are focused on.&nbsp; D&amp;D was never simulationist, but it had simulationist nods.&nbsp; It's always been gamist.&nbsp; 4e has dumped the simulationism for narrativism, and some don't like that.&nbsp; But claiming that 4e is telling you that an epic level demon lord can't teleport represents a fundamental misunderstanding of what has been presented to you.1.&nbsp; 4e does leave this explicitly to the DM2.&nbsp; There is no statement that Graz'zt can't instant escape a battle and no need to rationalize such a story element.It could.&nbsp; The DM is freed from the constraints of 3e, where everything had to be explained by something in a book.&nbsp; If the DM wants a magic fountain that drinking from it gives the PCs a level, he can.&nbsp; I don't mean he can in the sense of Rule 0, but in the sense that such things are actively encouraged by the game, explicitly stated as encouraged, and made easy to accomplish because you do not need a page reference to rationalize having a magic fountain, or an item grant a wish, or something like that.&nbsp; Having things grant wishes is a staple of fantasy, having PCs cast wish daily is a bit much.&nbsp; A wish in 3e was horribly nerfed to the point where it wasn't really a wish at all, out of necessity since it was an ability attainable by PCs.&nbsp; DMing the edition for RPGA events, D&amp;D does become a skirmish game, and it always has.&nbsp; The RPGA experimented with adding heavier RP elements to their games, and it didn't really work.&nbsp; But, since it's inception, RPGA games focus on combat/adventure.&nbsp; That's the nature of that beast.&nbsp; 4e plays well in that regard.&nbsp; But if you only see it in that regard, you are ignoring the potential of the system.&nbsp; A potential, again, explicitly stated in the DMG.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thasmodious, post: 4523427, member: 63272"] There is no one claiming Graz'zt can't teleport to another plane or thousands of miles away. But that is not a combat ability. The monster stat blocks present combat abilities. Battlefield teleportation is a combat ability. Where some of the disconnect is, is that 4e tells DMs to service the story. If the PCs are having their first confrontation with Graz'zt he's supposed to get away if he doesn't take them out. So he does. The DM doesn't need to be able to show the players a line in the MM that says he can do that. Some do not like this approach, some do, but not understanding it at all is what leads people to think that 4e is a skirmish game. To do so, you are ignoring a good deal of the DMG, wherein running campaigns, building stories, and the like are focused on. D&D was never simulationist, but it had simulationist nods. It's always been gamist. 4e has dumped the simulationism for narrativism, and some don't like that. But claiming that 4e is telling you that an epic level demon lord can't teleport represents a fundamental misunderstanding of what has been presented to you. 1. 4e does leave this explicitly to the DM 2. There is no statement that Graz'zt can't instant escape a battle and no need to rationalize such a story element. It could. The DM is freed from the constraints of 3e, where everything had to be explained by something in a book. If the DM wants a magic fountain that drinking from it gives the PCs a level, he can. I don't mean he can in the sense of Rule 0, but in the sense that such things are actively encouraged by the game, explicitly stated as encouraged, and made easy to accomplish because you do not need a page reference to rationalize having a magic fountain, or an item grant a wish, or something like that. Having things grant wishes is a staple of fantasy, having PCs cast wish daily is a bit much. A wish in 3e was horribly nerfed to the point where it wasn't really a wish at all, out of necessity since it was an ability attainable by PCs. DMing the edition for RPGA events, D&D does become a skirmish game, and it always has. The RPGA experimented with adding heavier RP elements to their games, and it didn't really work. But, since it's inception, RPGA games focus on combat/adventure. That's the nature of that beast. 4e plays well in that regard. But if you only see it in that regard, you are ignoring the potential of the system. A potential, again, explicitly stated in the DMG. [/QUOTE]

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