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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4525612" data-attributes="member: 2067">No, just that it doesn't support those things as well as it supports, say, the Striker role.The level of attention the Striker role is paid in the rules obviously, overwhelmingly, trumps the amount of attention that a character designed to be a Negotiator gets. A Striker has a way to contribute to every combat, in every session.A Negotiator might not get to roll a Persuasion check for months at a time, depending on the campaign.There's a disconnect there that doesn't need to be there. It's a pretty simple thing to design non-combat encounters so that every non-combat role can contribute. Heck, they already have a basic system. If I just steal the skeleton of the combat system, it gives me a starting point.In combat, the Striker will roll CHA vs. Will to do a flashy attack. They deal damage and gain an edge.In exploration, the "Negotiator" will roll CHA vs. Society to talk her way past some goblins. She makes progress toward the exit and gains a map for later use.In combat, the Defender will roll STR vs. AC to penetrate the armor. They deal damage and gain an edge.In exploration, the "Scout" will roll DEX vs. Traps to negotiate the difficult deadfalls and rockslides ahead. He makes progress toward the exit and manages to re-set the trap so that other monsters will have to deal with it. This isn't impossible, if you make it a goal. It's not an equivalent, but where a minis wargame is one end of a continuum and LARPing is the other, 4e slides you toward the wargame from 3e's ever-so-slightly-more character/world focused stance, because its rules for dealing with things that aren't putting pointy objects into squishy things that scream are more lacking than 3e's were (and 3e's were hardly a bastion of good resolution to begin with, but they were better than a broken Skill Challenge system). That, ultimately, is the kernel of truth in these "4e feels more like a boardgame"-style observations. They aren't all just gut-reaction 4e-bashing. And I wouldn't be too surprised to see 4e designers try to handle these concerns in the next 2-3 years. I'd be more surprised if they didn't do anything about it, actually.</blockquote>

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