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When did the Fighter become "defender"?
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<blockquote data-quote="Estlor" data-source="post: 5906726" data-attributes="member: 7261"><p>This thread has kind of moved away from the original response I wanted to make, but I'm going to make it anyway.</p><p></p><p>The premise of the OP appears to be born out of a disconnect between the connotation of "defender" compared to the specific 4e denotation of "defender." It's like they were equating Defender = Tank = Bodyguard when that's simply not the case.</p><p></p><p>"Tank," as an informal role, absolutely exists in 4e. A number of non-defender classes are perfectly capable of tanking - warpriest, Con/Dex monk, and an avenger with a defensive focus. All you need to tank is some combination of 1) lots of HP/surges and 2) good enough defenses that monsters miss more than 50% of the time.</p><p></p><p>A Defender (with a capital "D") is specifically a class that possesses a mechanical ability that allows them to attract the attention of a monster and punish them if they choose to ignore them. (They're basically single creature melee controllers.) This usually manifests in the form of mark + punishment. Each serves a different purpose.</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Marking a creature serves to raise the other PCs defenses to a level comparable to that of the Defender, removing the incentive to avoid attacking the Defender due to their superior defenses.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Punishment serves as that last push to make the Defender the ideal target.</li> </ul><p>So, basically, the Defender is that guy who stands off to the side of everybody else and waves his arms screaming, "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" to try and buy his Striker buddies enough time to uncork their big guns all over whichever monster they want indiscriminately.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That said, I'm absolutely in favor of decentralizing the roles so that, to a certain degree, if you want to be a fighter that's more of a leader and hands out bonuses/minor heals, the correct choice of feats/powers will allow you to do that. You'd still be the only class that gets a native mark+punishment ability out of the box, you just wouldn't be pushed toward defending with every power.</p><p></p><p></p><p>To the OP's point of playing a bodyguard, the class that actually excels at that is the Warlord. They have quite a number of reaction powers that involve putting themselves between an ally and an attack or coming to an ally's rescue. But they already play a lot like a non-defender fighter out of the box, right down to even having an archer variety.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Estlor, post: 5906726, member: 7261"] This thread has kind of moved away from the original response I wanted to make, but I'm going to make it anyway. The premise of the OP appears to be born out of a disconnect between the connotation of "defender" compared to the specific 4e denotation of "defender." It's like they were equating Defender = Tank = Bodyguard when that's simply not the case. "Tank," as an informal role, absolutely exists in 4e. A number of non-defender classes are perfectly capable of tanking - warpriest, Con/Dex monk, and an avenger with a defensive focus. All you need to tank is some combination of 1) lots of HP/surges and 2) good enough defenses that monsters miss more than 50% of the time. A Defender (with a capital "D") is specifically a class that possesses a mechanical ability that allows them to attract the attention of a monster and punish them if they choose to ignore them. (They're basically single creature melee controllers.) This usually manifests in the form of mark + punishment. Each serves a different purpose. [LIST] [*]Marking a creature serves to raise the other PCs defenses to a level comparable to that of the Defender, removing the incentive to avoid attacking the Defender due to their superior defenses. [*]Punishment serves as that last push to make the Defender the ideal target. [/LIST] So, basically, the Defender is that guy who stands off to the side of everybody else and waves his arms screaming, "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" to try and buy his Striker buddies enough time to uncork their big guns all over whichever monster they want indiscriminately. That said, I'm absolutely in favor of decentralizing the roles so that, to a certain degree, if you want to be a fighter that's more of a leader and hands out bonuses/minor heals, the correct choice of feats/powers will allow you to do that. You'd still be the only class that gets a native mark+punishment ability out of the box, you just wouldn't be pushed toward defending with every power. To the OP's point of playing a bodyguard, the class that actually excels at that is the Warlord. They have quite a number of reaction powers that involve putting themselves between an ally and an attack or coming to an ally's rescue. But they already play a lot like a non-defender fighter out of the box, right down to even having an archer variety. [/QUOTE]
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When did the Fighter become "defender"?
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