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<blockquote data-quote="RodneyThompson" data-source="post: 4592573" data-attributes="member: 3594">I think that's just a bit condescending, don't you? Game designs often use terms in new ways, because there may not be a concise word that perfectly sums up a game concept. It's not exclusive to game design, either; look how many technological terms we use today because someone used an existing term in a new way. I think that &quot;armor class,&quot; &quot;saving throw,&quot; and &quot;feat&quot; are on the same level as &quot;bloodied&quot; or &quot;controller.&quot; The importing thing is that they have an analogous concept, not that they match the definition exactly. We accept that &quot;armor class&quot; means &quot;a numerical bonus that represents how well you are protected you from attacks,&quot; nevermind the fact that it is not a classification of armor and, in many cases, has little or anything to do with armor. What does the term &quot;saving throw&quot; even have to do with the actual function, except that you throw a die? Feats aren't always actual feats--meaning a noteworthy act--but we accept that the term represents enhancements to the things that you do. My point isn't that there is anything wrong with these things, but rather that sometimes, in order to communicate a concept, you sometimes have to appropriate a term. Similarly, the &quot;controller&quot; issue isn't one as far as I am concerned. Area attacks are a form of battlefield control: they discourage the enemy from bunching up into small groups and ganging up on single targets, they eliminate entire clusters of enemies simultaneously and create temporary &quot;safe zones&quot; through which one can move, and they create &quot;areas of control&quot; in which enemies know that they can be attacked simultaneously and, thus, discouraging enemies from entering those zones. Mike's point wasn't that area attacks don't make you a controller, but rather that it's not enough of a hook to hang your role on. Area attacks are a form of battlefield control, but they are not the sole form; I agree with Mike that the controller role can do many more interesting things, but that doesn't involve changing the controller role's function, just the emphasis of it's powers. Think of it like a pie chart: right now, the wizard powers look a lot like a pie chart with a large wedge of area attacks; I think we might want to balance it out so that area attacks, special effects, zones, conjurations, etc. all take up more equal pieces of that same pie.Mods, if this is too much of a threadjack, feel free to fork.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="RodneyThompson, post: 4592573, member: 3594"] I think that's just a bit condescending, don't you? Game designs often use terms in new ways, because there may not be a concise word that perfectly sums up a game concept. It's not exclusive to game design, either; look how many technological terms we use today because someone used an existing term in a new way. I think that "armor class," "saving throw," and "feat" are on the same level as "bloodied" or "controller." The importing thing is that they have an analogous concept, not that they match the definition exactly. We accept that "armor class" means "a numerical bonus that represents how well you are protected you from attacks," nevermind the fact that it is not a classification of armor and, in many cases, has little or anything to do with armor. What does the term "saving throw" even have to do with the actual function, except that you throw a die? Feats aren't always actual feats--meaning a noteworthy act--but we accept that the term represents enhancements to the things that you do. My point isn't that there is anything wrong with these things, but rather that sometimes, in order to communicate a concept, you sometimes have to appropriate a term. Similarly, the "controller" issue isn't one as far as I am concerned. Area attacks are a form of battlefield control: they discourage the enemy from bunching up into small groups and ganging up on single targets, they eliminate entire clusters of enemies simultaneously and create temporary "safe zones" through which one can move, and they create "areas of control" in which enemies know that they can be attacked simultaneously and, thus, discouraging enemies from entering those zones. Mike's point wasn't that area attacks don't make you a controller, but rather that it's not enough of a hook to hang your role on. Area attacks are a form of battlefield control, but they are not the sole form; I agree with Mike that the controller role can do many more interesting things, but that doesn't involve changing the controller role's function, just the emphasis of it's powers. Think of it like a pie chart: right now, the wizard powers look a lot like a pie chart with a large wedge of area attacks; I think we might want to balance it out so that area attacks, special effects, zones, conjurations, etc. all take up more equal pieces of that same pie. Mods, if this is too much of a threadjack, feel free to fork. [/QUOTE]

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