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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5535205" data-attributes="member: 957">First, that is not the point most others are making.&nbsp; If we can first agree that there IS a split between 4E and PF, then we can certainly move on to discussing the significance of PF being a built on 3E D&amp;D.&nbsp; But I'd also say that there is a very real difference between PF / 4E and the coexisting versions of the past.&nbsp; Again, the existence of PF would not have happened if a marketplace of fans rejecting the new version of D&amp;D had not been there for the taking.&nbsp; And the differences don't stop there.&nbsp; Can you show me the comparable event to debating whether or not a cartoon dragon taking a dump on a troll over his preference between basic or advanced was an issue?&nbsp; And why does PF seem to be MORE popular now than 3E was in its lagging days?Honestly, my recollection is that basic D&amp;D was a gateway game and AD&amp;D became the big game.&nbsp; Honestly, I was a kid and really not paying attention to that kind of information.&nbsp; I don't think it was a head to head nearly so much as a pairing.&nbsp; (meaningful numbers of exceptions notwithstanding).&nbsp; But, if you say my memory is just wrong, so be it.&nbsp; I don't really care because I don't agree it is relevant.And I know with an absolute certainty that there are absolutely people playing both games.&nbsp; But if you are trying to paint a picture of one big happy family, then that is just funny.&nbsp; I'm a &quot;H4TER&quot;.&nbsp; I'm an &quot;edition war-monger&quot;.&nbsp; (And I have a lot of fun.)&nbsp; But as I've said many time before, 4E is a perfectly ok game.&nbsp; It is easily on my list of top 20 RPGs of all time.&nbsp; Maybe top ten.&nbsp; But there are better and I choose to play those.&nbsp; Heck, there are better games that I still don't ever get around to.&nbsp; But I literally find myself running into other gamers completely at random and commonly hearing &quot;4E SUCKS!!&quot;.&nbsp; If I'm a H4TER, you should check out those guys.&nbsp; And there are a lot of them.But again, that is all tangent because the point is whether or not we even agree that PF is in the ballpark of 4E.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5535205, member: 957"] First, that is not the point most others are making. If we can first agree that there IS a split between 4E and PF, then we can certainly move on to discussing the significance of PF being a built on 3E D&D. But I'd also say that there is a very real difference between PF / 4E and the coexisting versions of the past. Again, the existence of PF would not have happened if a marketplace of fans rejecting the new version of D&D had not been there for the taking. And the differences don't stop there. Can you show me the comparable event to debating whether or not a cartoon dragon taking a dump on a troll over his preference between basic or advanced was an issue? And why does PF seem to be MORE popular now than 3E was in its lagging days? Honestly, my recollection is that basic D&D was a gateway game and AD&D became the big game. Honestly, I was a kid and really not paying attention to that kind of information. I don't think it was a head to head nearly so much as a pairing. (meaningful numbers of exceptions notwithstanding). But, if you say my memory is just wrong, so be it. I don't really care because I don't agree it is relevant. And I know with an absolute certainty that there are absolutely people playing both games. But if you are trying to paint a picture of one big happy family, then that is just funny. I'm a "H4TER". I'm an "edition war-monger". (And I have a lot of fun.) But as I've said many time before, 4E is a perfectly ok game. It is easily on my list of top 20 RPGs of all time. Maybe top ten. But there are better and I choose to play those. Heck, there are better games that I still don't ever get around to. But I literally find myself running into other gamers completely at random and commonly hearing "4E SUCKS!!". If I'm a H4TER, you should check out those guys. And there are a lot of them. But again, that is all tangent because the point is whether or not we even agree that PF is in the ballpark of 4E. [/QUOTE]

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