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<blockquote data-quote="AtomicPope" data-source="post: 4232302" data-attributes="member: 64790">This is my situation exactly&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool&nbsp; &nbsp; :cool:"&nbsp; data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> I play and run WoD.&nbsp; A group of friends wanted to play D&amp;D so I did.&nbsp; It's not that 3e was the best, it's just a way to hang out with my pals.Nothing in 3e was compelling.&nbsp; I was in it for friends and nostalgia.&nbsp; When I started playing 3e I saw it as an improvement over 1e or 2e but not the end all be all.&nbsp; When I first started playing 3e I immediately saw some problems.&nbsp; Most of the classes were &quot;front-loaded&quot; which favored heavily dipping over single classes or multiclassing.&nbsp; Then 3.5 came out which fixed the Bard and improved other core classes but introduced its own host of problems.&nbsp; Fighters were lamer than in 3.previous&nbsp; Feats. *yawn*&nbsp; Then the worst part - as the campaigns matured, the characters became nigh unstoppable.It was obviously frustrating for GM's when we could kill a dragon before it could react.&nbsp; Once we min-maxed it became clear that combat wasn't going to be a challenge anymore.&nbsp; Monsters had to start dipping into classes just to compete.&nbsp; Designer monsters was the only challenge but even that wasn't enough.&nbsp; The CR for a &quot;class monster&quot; is was too high so they didn't last.&nbsp; Then the DM's would resort to custom monsters with At Will &quot;save or die&quot; powers like Finger of Death and Disintegrate.And that's where 4e comes in.&nbsp; After having campaign, after campaign peter out because either the challenges were ridiculously high or &quot;too equal&quot; I'm ready for a change.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AtomicPope, post: 4232302, member: 64790"] This is my situation exactly :cool: I play and run WoD. A group of friends wanted to play D&D so I did. It's not that 3e was the best, it's just a way to hang out with my pals. Nothing in 3e was compelling. I was in it for friends and nostalgia. When I started playing 3e I saw it as an improvement over 1e or 2e but not the end all be all. When I first started playing 3e I immediately saw some problems. Most of the classes were "front-loaded" which favored [I]heavily [/I]dipping over single classes or multiclassing. Then 3.5 came out which fixed the Bard and improved other core classes but introduced its own host of problems. Fighters were lamer than in 3.previous Feats. *yawn* Then the worst part - as the campaigns matured, the characters became nigh unstoppable. It was obviously frustrating for GM's when we could kill a dragon before it could react. Once we min-maxed it became clear that combat wasn't going to be a challenge anymore. Monsters had to start dipping into classes just to compete. Designer monsters was the only challenge but even that wasn't enough. The CR for a "class monster" is was too high so they didn't last. Then the DM's would resort to custom monsters with At Will "save or die" powers like [I]Finger of Death[/I] and [I]Disintegrate[/I]. And that's where 4e comes in. After having campaign, after campaign peter out because either the challenges were ridiculously high or "too equal" I'm ready for a change. [/QUOTE]

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