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<blockquote data-quote="Kalshane" data-source="post: 7035656" data-attributes="member: 9505">That is how I would rule it, though I think the default &quot;everyone has magical 360 degree vision at all times&quot; assumption in the rules is both unrealistic and needlessly strict against stealth.This is a little trickier, since the character is definitely not &quot;unseen&quot; but is rather possibly not recognized as a threat. I'd probably say Deception vs. Insight for the character to remain &quot;nonthreatening&quot; to the guard before he makes the attack (if he fails, the guard realizes the character is a little twitchy or otherwise anxious) and then allow a Sleight of Hand vs. Passive Perception of both the guard and &quot;the crowd&quot; (probably set the latter at 15. Average person plus Advantage to reflect the number of eyes on the character.) If the character passes both checks he can take the guard by surprise. (Otherwise he either tips his hand and alerts the guard or else someone in the crowd sees him drawing the weapon and cries out likewise alerting the guard.)Deception vs. Insight again. If success, the guard is surprised. If the character wants to be treated as Hidden, though, he's going to have to make a Stealth check vs. the guard's passive perception, as even if the guard doesn't register the character as a threat, he's still aware of his existence. I might just be overly paranoid, but I personally get twitchy when someone walks past me and then starts doing something directly behind me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kalshane, post: 7035656, member: 9505"] That is how I would rule it, though I think the default "everyone has magical 360 degree vision at all times" assumption in the rules is both unrealistic and needlessly strict against stealth. This is a little trickier, since the character is definitely not "unseen" but is rather possibly not recognized as a threat. I'd probably say Deception vs. Insight for the character to remain "nonthreatening" to the guard before he makes the attack (if he fails, the guard realizes the character is a little twitchy or otherwise anxious) and then allow a Sleight of Hand vs. Passive Perception of both the guard and "the crowd" (probably set the latter at 15. Average person plus Advantage to reflect the number of eyes on the character.) If the character passes both checks he can take the guard by surprise. (Otherwise he either tips his hand and alerts the guard or else someone in the crowd sees him drawing the weapon and cries out likewise alerting the guard.) Deception vs. Insight again. If success, the guard is surprised. If the character wants to be treated as Hidden, though, he's going to have to make a Stealth check vs. the guard's passive perception, as even if the guard doesn't register the character as a threat, he's still aware of his existence. I might just be overly paranoid, but I personally get twitchy when someone walks past me and then starts doing something directly behind me. [/QUOTE]

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