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<blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 7036441" data-attributes="member: 413">Here is how I would rule on each (I try to rule the same way regardless of which character is the PC):Situation 1:&nbsp; Rogue makes a stealth vs perception check.&nbsp; Even if it is a &quot;bored guard&quot; presumably he is still vaguely aware of his surroundings and looking about from time to time.&nbsp; If he is actively engaged in some other activity then I'd go with passive perception.&nbsp; Assuming the rogue ties or beats the guard's roll, the guard doesn't notice him.&nbsp; Combat starts with an initiative roll but the guard is surprised.&nbsp; I have my own house rules on how surprise works that I'll not go into here....following RAW surprise rules, if the guard wins init, he becomes just aware enough to be able to take reactions on the rogue's turn. Otherwise, the rogue can attack (with advantage on the first attack roll), move away without provoking an OA or other reactions and then use his bonus action to rehide, dodge, disengage or dash (assuming 2nd level).Situation 2:&nbsp; I ALWAYS require a check to be unseen/unnoticed.&nbsp; The target/victim should always have a chance to notice, because it is a game.&nbsp; I wouldn't do that to a PC so I wouldn't allow a PC to do it to an NPC.&nbsp; Even if the rogue were invisible, I'd allow stealth vs perception check for the guard to at least avoid being surprised.&nbsp; Maybe he notices a sound.&nbsp; Maybe just has some intuition.&nbsp; There should always be a chance, even a slim one unless the rogue simply has an unbeatable stealth bonus (which happens and that's okay). So right before the rogue attacks I'd require a check of some sort.&nbsp; It doesn't have to be stealth depending on circumstances.&nbsp; Maybe deception vs insight to hide intentions.&nbsp; If the rogue succeeds, the guard is surprised and the rogue is unseen. Roll init.Situation 3: As I said, I'd still allow a chance for the guard.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd allow the warlock to make a deception check with advantage vs insight (possibly with disadvantage) to be able to initiate combat with the guard surprised and allow the first attack to have advantage.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Uller, post: 7036441, member: 413"] Here is how I would rule on each (I try to rule the same way regardless of which character is the PC): Situation 1: Rogue makes a stealth vs perception check. Even if it is a "bored guard" presumably he is still vaguely aware of his surroundings and looking about from time to time. If he is actively engaged in some other activity then I'd go with passive perception. Assuming the rogue ties or beats the guard's roll, the guard doesn't notice him. Combat starts with an initiative roll but the guard is surprised. I have my own house rules on how surprise works that I'll not go into here....following RAW surprise rules, if the guard wins init, he becomes just aware enough to be able to take reactions on the rogue's turn. Otherwise, the rogue can attack (with advantage on the first attack roll), move away without provoking an OA or other reactions and then use his bonus action to rehide, dodge, disengage or dash (assuming 2nd level). Situation 2: I ALWAYS require a check to be unseen/unnoticed. The target/victim should always have a chance to notice, because it is a game. I wouldn't do that to a PC so I wouldn't allow a PC to do it to an NPC. Even if the rogue were invisible, I'd allow stealth vs perception check for the guard to at least avoid being surprised. Maybe he notices a sound. Maybe just has some intuition. There should always be a chance, even a slim one unless the rogue simply has an unbeatable stealth bonus (which happens and that's okay). So right before the rogue attacks I'd require a check of some sort. It doesn't have to be stealth depending on circumstances. Maybe deception vs insight to hide intentions. If the rogue succeeds, the guard is surprised and the rogue is unseen. Roll init. Situation 3: As I said, I'd still allow a chance for the guard. I'd allow the warlock to make a deception check with advantage vs insight (possibly with disadvantage) to be able to initiate combat with the guard surprised and allow the first attack to have advantage. [/QUOTE]

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