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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jdrakeh" data-source="post: 2649724" data-attributes="member: 13892">Sure it is. Which is the point I've been trying to make. I agree, but somtimes TPKs can occur unintentionally as the result of horrible dice rolls when the situation doesn't warrant a TPK (see the old Rolemaster small animal critical hit charts for some examples of how this might happen). In cases such as an entire party of hereos  being killed by a small squirrel because of some die rolls, is it 'doing the players a grave disservice' to veto the TPK, not because it's 'bad' but because it makes absolutely no sense in the context of the game being played? Note I've never advocated getting rid of TPKs completely - only when they don't make sense (go back to my earlier examples in this thread) in the context of the game being played or when they run roughshod over the enjoyment of the players (e.g., ending a campaign when the players are still interested in it). Like I've said - TPKs have their place, but more often than not, they seem to be used by DMs to 'teach their players a lesson' or indulge in some other form of chest-thumping Alpha Male behavior. Only if the fudging is obvious, I think. Fact is, if you have no idea that DM fiat has been exercised, then.. uhm... you have no idea that DM fiat has been exercised. That is, you'll be none the wiser. They key is to not make PC death impossible - it can and should always be possible. That said, this doesn't preclude fudging things when it makes sense to do so - fudging dice sometimes doesn't make PC death impossible all of the time. Now, if you're honestly saying that it never makes sense to fudge roll results and that the DM and players should have no say in what happens during a game, but instead follow the rules slavishly regardless of whether or not they make sense in a given situation, then... ah... I don't get that. That sounds... ah... very contrary to the design goals of pretty much every RPG ever written (with the possible exception of The World of Synnibarr). If, OTOH, you're arguing that the DM should enforce a TPK whenever they feel like it, how is that any less biased than preventing one whenever they feel like it? It sounds as though you might be beating the 'bad wrong fun' drum here, because you seem to be advocating a a different, although equally biased and arbitrary, approach to TPKs as the one you're saying is 'wrong'.   Of course, it's possible that I'm getting you wrong altogether and you're merely saying 'That's not the way I like it' as opposed to 'That's bad and wrong and anybody who does it is bad and wrong!'. Which makes a lot of sense, and is something that I understand all too well <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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