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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5605175" data-attributes="member: 92305">We had an interesting discussion come up during yesterday's game surround when it is appropriate to throw initiative. Consider two gladiators entering a ring.  I had both characters throw nish, then, in nish order, allowed each character to move. To my thinking, the combat started as soon as the two gladitors entered the combat space ready to fight. But, one of my players had an interesting comment.  Before I tell you that, though, let me tell you how he came to his thought:  The gladiator ring was so big that it was too far to Charge a foe when a gladiator first entered.  But, if he move in a few squares, that put him in ranged to be charged by the other gladitor. My player felt that this allowed the character who lost the nish roll to "steal initiative" because:  You've either got a Mexican Stand-off, where neither character will move closer to his foe, opening himself up to the charge;  Or, the one of the characters does make a move, then receives the charge (I argued it would be a good time to Ready a weapon to received a charge, then.) My player felt like, if the character with nish moves and allows the other character to charge him, that the character who lost the nish toss actually "steals the initiative" because he gets first blow due to the charge. My player's argument is that I threw for Initiative too early.  He says I should have stayed in scenes longer, as the players move around not acutally in formal combat yet.  Then, as soon as one of them declared a charge, initiative would be thrown. This way, once the charge is declared (and is the "first aggressive action", signaling the start of combat), the target of the charge can win nish and move behind a barrier, therefore making the charge impossible.  Or, he can lose the nish toss, and them be charged by the character with inititive. In this way, my player thinks "initiative can't be stolen by using the charge".     One of the main reasons that I threw nish as the gladiators entered the ring is that both were ready for combat, and I couldn't see either as being "flatfooted"--which will happen if I go with what my player says.  So, under my player's method, if I threw nish that late, one character could conceivably win nish, charge his foe, and his foe would be flatfooted (even though the character has entered a gladitorial combat ring).     So, you tell me.  I think both sides have a strong argument. On which side does your opinion lay? And--a second question.  At what point would your throw nish in the gladitorial combat described above?  At what point do you normally throw nish in your normal games?</blockquote>

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