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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 1276698" data-attributes="member: 5834">reNo, they specifically state the "bad old times during the great Siege". There is a reference to the great Siege in the Silmarillion.   Could simply be historical stories that the orcs know about.I certainly hope a Tolkien scholar such as yourself discusses this on sites where the people involved are infinitely more knowledgable about things Tolkien such as The One Ring.net. They have quite a few folks who are  more well-read on Tolkien than myself, and they often debate a variety of issues such as this.The final conclusion there was that Tolkien flip-flopped concerning orc lifespans and there origins. There were many elves captured and tortured during Morgoth's reign. No reason to believe he didn't do something with them given that trolls are corrupted ents. Ents are long-lived, though I am not sure about trolls.It is hardly insane. There is only one great Siege in Middle Earth historically, at least one instance referred to as the great Siege, though I am sure there were many sieges. And with the additional qualifying statement the "bad old times" could easily refer to such things.I'm not saying definitely one way or the other. I am just asserting that your absolute belief that it is not a valid interpretation is also incorrect. Tolkien flip-flopped on alot of issues often for religious reasons like the redeemability of orcs.Hardly the final nail in the coffin. As I said, much flip-flopping by Tolkien. Maybe in that letter he made his final decision, but he certainly didn't seem to have made it in his early writings.Or can you tell me where in his stories he made this decision? The letters were quite a few years after the story (and backstories). He had alot of time to sit back and decide where the orcs came from. No surprise that he decided later  he didn't want corrupted elves after he wrote the chapter in the Silmarillion.</blockquote>

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