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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 250275" data-attributes="member: 4937">One rule of thumb I use is that if the CR of the creature is more than 1 below that of the players, only add 1 (not 2) to the EL each time you double the number of foes.  I tend to round fractions down not up (and I tend to avoid odd numbers anyway).Although there are alot of odd numbers involved that make calculation difficult, I would have treated that encounter as EL 8, which would in my opinion made it 2 levels below an equal challenge to the party (since they are on the heavy side of 9th).   I would expect a party of 9th's to survive a large number of such encounters.7 level 1's = CR somewhere between 3 and 4 (I'd expect a 4th level character to be able to handle 2 1st level characters a piece without breaking to much of a sweat).1 level 3 = CR 33 ECL 5 = CR somewhere between 6 and 7 (not between 7 and 8).2 ECL 6 = CR 7 (not 8).Together I see this as roughly the equivalent of two CR 7's, so EL 8. I hate to run combats this big, but a challenge of the following might have been more on par with the character's abilities:4 Goblin Rog2 (concealed, +2 DEX compared to avg. goblins)4 Hobgoblin Ftr2 (full cover to begin fight, probably with bow feats (point blank shot, weapon focus (longbow), precise shot), +2 DEX, and mw arrows, fights from 1/2 cover)1 Hobgoblin Drd6 (+4 WIS, +2 CON, minor magic items) wt. 2 Dire Wolf Companions (full cover to begin fight, fights from 9/10th cover)4 Bugbear Rog2/Ftr2 (concealed, +2 STR, +2 DEX)2 Ogre Ftr2/Brb2 (+2 CON, in full plate with MW huge great axe, full cover to begin fight)That is 8 CR 2's (effectively CR 5)2 CR 3's (CR 4)5 CR 6 (Roughly CR 8)2 CR 7 (Roughly CR 8)Which is on the heavy side of CR 9, or EL 10, just like the party.They'd still get slaughtered, but they would use up a good deal more party resources assuming your spell caster's AC isn't that high.  Problem is though, anything that can challenge your party is going to decimate thier cohorts if they get in the way.</blockquote>

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