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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
When Fiends Attack: Are Balors, Pit Fiends and Ultraloths too weak?
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<blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 7015985" data-attributes="member: 6802951"><p>Strahd has already done the awesome "I'm going to face you down, toy with you and laugh off your puny attempts" earlier in the adventure. Generally by the time of the final confrontation, the party will have discovered his secrets, hold weapons that are a very real threat to him, and be a high enough level to take him on.</p><p>That's the point where Strahd stops toying with the party and starts <em>hunting</em> them. The point at which the party experiences the leader who has held his nation in thrall for centuries and the general who led armies to victory. To just have him stand in a room next to the guy emitting <em>sunlight </em>and soak up radiant-damage attacks while punching people would, to my mind, deprive the players of an integral part of the module. The cat-and-snake game as the party searches the castle trying to confront Strahd and destroy him for good while he whittles them down with his minions, trying to take the sword away from them, prevents them from resting etc.</p><p></p><p>Do you regard vampires as dark and terrible predators of the night; cunning and vicious with weaknesses that must be exploited to destroy them? Or as nigh-indestructible thugmonsters?</p><p> Strahd is the former. If you wanted an adventure with a BBEG who was the latter, CoS isn't it. </p><p>Its like complaining that the MM Ogre statblock doesn't bear out their role as rooftop burglary and infiltration experts.</p><p></p><p> Possibly. I'm not sure how many archers a small city could field, how many of them would be in range to attack the dragon at any one time, or the flammability of the city.</p><p></p><p> I'm going to have to say that you're incorrect there, unless you're making some major assumptions about state of said party. Particularly their remaining resources, whether they had to fight their way through the castle to find him, and how many of Stradh's minions they are having to fight as well as him.</p><p></p><p> Statblocks aren't just AC and HP. Statblocks include Int and Wis scores, Legendary and Lair actions.</p><p></p><p> Burn? no. <em>Use</em>? <strong>Yes</strong>.</p><p></p><p> That is a rather unpleasant accusation. Care to back it up with how <em>my</em> experience of fighting Strahd in his castle indicated that his statblock was too weak?</p><p></p><p> Because my experience and evaluation does not bear that conclusion out.</p><p>I'm quite willing to accept that you personally believe that Strahd's statblock isn't good enough, and that there are several others who think the same. They're entitled to their opinions.</p><p></p><p> Where is the line between 'playing Strahd as he is written in the adventure' and 'laborious tactics', 'compensation' etc. </p><p>Running devious tactics isn't a luxury, its Strahd's baseline of how the book seems to suggest he is played. </p><p>Its assumed that a DM will have and apply a level of gamesmastery roughly equivalent to that of their players I think. That's probably a good guideline. If there is a large disparity either way, then some adjustment isn't unreasonable I believe.</p><p></p><p> No, I do not think that we can agree on that. I can accept that you have an opinion that differs from mine, and that you have anecdotal experiences that are the reason that you have those opinions. However my evaluations and experience do not support your base assumption and thus I do not agree with your proposal to correct it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cap'n Kobold, post: 7015985, member: 6802951"] Strahd has already done the awesome "I'm going to face you down, toy with you and laugh off your puny attempts" earlier in the adventure. Generally by the time of the final confrontation, the party will have discovered his secrets, hold weapons that are a very real threat to him, and be a high enough level to take him on. That's the point where Strahd stops toying with the party and starts [I]hunting[/I] them. The point at which the party experiences the leader who has held his nation in thrall for centuries and the general who led armies to victory. To just have him stand in a room next to the guy emitting [I]sunlight [/I]and soak up radiant-damage attacks while punching people would, to my mind, deprive the players of an integral part of the module. The cat-and-snake game as the party searches the castle trying to confront Strahd and destroy him for good while he whittles them down with his minions, trying to take the sword away from them, prevents them from resting etc. Do you regard vampires as dark and terrible predators of the night; cunning and vicious with weaknesses that must be exploited to destroy them? Or as nigh-indestructible thugmonsters? Strahd is the former. If you wanted an adventure with a BBEG who was the latter, CoS isn't it. Its like complaining that the MM Ogre statblock doesn't bear out their role as rooftop burglary and infiltration experts. Possibly. I'm not sure how many archers a small city could field, how many of them would be in range to attack the dragon at any one time, or the flammability of the city. I'm going to have to say that you're incorrect there, unless you're making some major assumptions about state of said party. Particularly their remaining resources, whether they had to fight their way through the castle to find him, and how many of Stradh's minions they are having to fight as well as him. Statblocks aren't just AC and HP. Statblocks include Int and Wis scores, Legendary and Lair actions. Burn? no. [I]Use[/I]? [B]Yes[/B]. That is a rather unpleasant accusation. Care to back it up with how [I]my[/I] experience of fighting Strahd in his castle indicated that his statblock was too weak? Because my experience and evaluation does not bear that conclusion out. I'm quite willing to accept that you personally believe that Strahd's statblock isn't good enough, and that there are several others who think the same. They're entitled to their opinions. Where is the line between 'playing Strahd as he is written in the adventure' and 'laborious tactics', 'compensation' etc. Running devious tactics isn't a luxury, its Strahd's baseline of how the book seems to suggest he is played. Its assumed that a DM will have and apply a level of gamesmastery roughly equivalent to that of their players I think. That's probably a good guideline. If there is a large disparity either way, then some adjustment isn't unreasonable I believe. No, I do not think that we can agree on that. I can accept that you have an opinion that differs from mine, and that you have anecdotal experiences that are the reason that you have those opinions. However my evaluations and experience do not support your base assumption and thus I do not agree with your proposal to correct it. [/QUOTE]
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When Fiends Attack: Are Balors, Pit Fiends and Ultraloths too weak?
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